Who doesn't vote for Ripken?

[SmootSmack]

I agree with you Jdlea, except what Pete Rose did was illegal while he was in uniform. What Mark McGwire allegedly did was not illegal while he was in uniform. If they're going to let Gaylord Perry, who made his career on illegally doctoring baseballs while pitching, in the hall of fame then they should let McGwire in.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I agree with you Jdlea, except what Pete Rose did was illegal while he was in uniform. What Mark McGwire allegedly did was not illegal while he was in uniform. If they're going to let Gaylord Perry, who made his career on illegally doctoring baseballs while pitching, in the hall of fame then they should let McGwire in.

I see your point, but if Strawberry or Doc Gooden had better numbers then they would let them in. The legality of a guy's actions aren't really what should be questioned. I understand that that speaks to their character, but as I said, with a precedent of Ty Cobb, it's hard to argue that anyone has too poor character to be in the Hall of Fame. While I understand the argument about the integrity of the game, I don't think baseball can deny the whole era happened.

Also, something to consider, with Jason Grimsley (who was a mediocre pitcher at best) admitting to steroid use, how many pitchers were possibly using steroids as well? How is anyone to know that a Glavine or Smoltz or Maddux weren't juicing. They're bodies don't appear that they had, but having read Canseco's book, he claims you don't have to get huge, you can just make your muscles twitch faster, that would seem advantageous to someone looking to add some miles per hour to his pitches. The fact is no one knows how rampant steroids were and no one really knows if McGwire was using the juice to hit homers while pitchers were using the juice to hit 100 on the gun. It's a very touchy situation, but pretending like the problem isn't there will not make it go away.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I see your point, but if Strawberry or Doc Gooden had better numbers then they would let them in. The legality of a guy's actions aren't really what should be questioned. I understand that that speaks to their character, but as I said, with a precedent of Ty Cobb, it's hard to argue that anyone has too poor character to be in the Hall of Fame. While I understand the argument about the integrity of the game, I don't think baseball can deny the whole era happened.

Also, something to consider, with Jason Grimsley (who was a mediocre pitcher at best) admitting to steroid use, how many pitchers were possibly using steroids as well? How is anyone to know that a Glavine or Smoltz or Maddux weren't juicing. They're bodies don't appear that they had, but having read Canseco's book, he claims you don't have to get huge, you can just make your muscles twitch faster, that would seem advantageous to someone looking to add some miles per hour to his pitches. The fact is no one knows how rampant steroids were and no one really knows if McGwire was using the juice to hit homers while pitchers were using the juice to hit 100 on the gun. It's a very touchy situation, but pretending like the problem isn't there will not make it go away.

Totally agree on the pitching. I mean the majority of people suspended have been pitchers.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

If they're going to let Gaylord Perry, who made his career on illegally doctoring baseballs while pitching, in the hall of fame then they should let McGwire in.

Exactly. There were other eras of questionable integrity, yet players from those eras still go to the hall. If I'm voting, there is no room for speculation. I can't say, "well, I think he might have used performance enhancing drugs, so I won't vote for him." I think any voter using that kind of logic to keep Mac out should have their voting privleges revoked.