No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....

[MTK]

Latest on Dockery from PFW:

Redskins officials would like to bring back free-agent OLG Derrick Dockery, if for no other reason than to continue the rapport he has with OLT Chris Samuels, but there is a fear among the team that Dockery is looking for a big payday. Typically, Redskins free agents who have hit the open market rarely return.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Latest on Dockery from PFW:

Redskins officials would like to bring back free-agent OLG Derrick Dockery, if for no other reason than to continue the rapport he has with OLT Chris Samuels, but there is a fear among the team that Dockery is looking for a big payday. Typically, Redskins free agents who have hit the open market rarely return.

I dont blame him, with the way we throw money at rediculous players like Archuletta, and what we pay for guys like Andre Carter (I love Carter, but he's prob not worth what we payed), why wouldnt he look for the Skins to give him money. I wouldnt break the bank, but I'd still pay alot to keep this guy.

Honestly, if we dont get him resigned, I'd slap the Franchise Tag on him and buy ourselves more time. I really don't want to hear that he's just an average offensive linemen, because the chemsitry required for a good O-line is second to none, and this team right now has chemistry there. The offensive line is one of the few spots that give me any hope for this team, and I think losing Dockery would be a huge loss.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

I dont blame him, with the way we throw money at rediculous players like Archuletta, and what we pay for guys like Andre Carter (I love Carter, but he's prob not worth what we payed), why wouldnt he look for the Skins to give him money. I wouldnt break the bank, but I'd still pay alot to keep this guy.

Honestly, if we dont get him resigned, I'd slap the Franchise Tag on him and buy ourselves more time. I really don't want to hear that he's just an average offensive linemen, because the chemsitry required for a good O-line is second to none, and this team right now has chemistry there. The offensive line is one of the few spots that give me any hope for this team, and I think losing Dockery would be a huge loss.

I think the problem with the franchise tag is that he would have to be paid the averag of the top ten (not sure if top ten is correct but close) lineman. This goes directly against the cap for 07 and could be the problem with doing that.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

This is something that needs to happen now. Honestly, go ahead and give him his payday, at least he's been here his whole career.

[MTK]

Yeah tagging him would create problems that they probably couldn't handle since they play it so close with the cap.

[Daseal]

I'm not worried about Dockery getting signed. There will not be huge demand for him in the FA market. HE is not a huge talent. He is just big, strong and slow. There are a ton of guys like Dockery out there.
I think some of you guys are reading way too much into continuity. Talent overcomes any continuity issues.

I must disagree with both of these statements. Dockery was one of our better offensive linemen last year. Sure, his first few years in the league he had some problems. This is the rule, not the exception. Sure, we can list off tons of people who had great rookie/2nd years, but you can list off a ton more that started slow, figured it out, and played at a high level. Dockery is that type of guy, I feel there would be a big demand for a very strong offensive linemen elsewhere in the league.

As far as continuity, I think you're way off base. The Redskins have arguably one of the most "talented" rosters in the NFL. And while I don't think our coaching staff is all that hot, others seem to think that. Put these together, why can't we win with excellent talent? Is it because people come through DC like a turnstyle every offseason? I think so.

We need to realize we can't have our cake and eat it too. We either need to stop doing the FA thing and use our draft, and because of this cant yell at players in their first, 2nd, 3rd years for not being all pros (Rogers comes to mind). Or we can continue with this strategy as long as the cap allows it (which with the way Danny and the boys massage the cap could be quite some time.)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

As far as continuity, I think you're way off base. The Redskins have arguably one of the most "talented" rosters in the NFL. And while I don't think our coaching staff is all that hot, others seem to think that. Put these together, why can't we win with excellent talent? Is it because people come through DC like a turnstyle every offseason? I think so.

Continuty, IMO, is important from one standpoint. If you have a successful roster, theres no guarentee that they will win in any given year. Too much can go wrong, and it's rarely smart to gut the thing after one year. Sometimes, a group of guys just needs another chance, not drastic changes.

I think some people take this concept to far, stressing that we should never get rid of anybody even if someone better is available. Dockery played pretty well at times last season, but he's not irreplaceible. Continuity can't account for a lack of talent, and while this 2006 squad got boned more than a few times, I think it's safe to say they werent the team we thought they would be. That's a talent issue. It's not that we don't have top end talent, its that we spread it too thin. No depth, and some starters on defense probably shouldn't be starting in the NFL (I'm looking at you Warrick Holdman).

Our ill-advised signings hurt our ability to build a roster in coming years, but they were not the reason we lost THIS year. We didn't lose because of poor chemistry or continuity, we lost because we got hurt and didn't have the horses to replace the injured guys.

[SWFlaSkinsFan]

Was thinking about this over the past weekend, and the following came to me:

Dock is in a system that shines when it runs the ball ... and the talents around him have enhanced his value. Last year was the first year that Dock actually looked like a viable member of the OL, and not a liability. The knock on him has always been his conditioning, and his ability to stay on his feet when he pulls out to lead through the hole. And his pass blocking has lagged behind his run blocking skills, up 'til last season.

Not sure what kind of money he's looking for, but I'd consider 5 yrs. at 3 mil. per, with a 3 mil. SB

[SWFlaSkinsFan]

Was thinking about this over the past weekend, and the following came to me:

Dock is in a system that shines when it runs the ball ... and the talents around him have enhanced his value. Last year was the first year that Dock actually looked like a viable member of the OL, and not a liability. The knock on him has always been his conditioning, and his ability to stay on his feet when he pulls out to lead through the hole. And his pass blocking has lagged behind his run blocking skills, up 'til last season. And he'd only look good with another team that emphasizes the run, and already has quality lineman in place to surround him. If he's smart, he'll take alook at where he's at, and he'll re-sign fairly soon.

Not sure what kind of money he's looking for, but I'd consider 5 yrs. at 3 mil. per, with a 3 mil. SB

[MTK]

$3M per with a $3M SB?

Try doubling the per year and tripling the SB and we might be getting close.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

$3M per with a $3M SB?

Try doubling the per year and tripling the SB and we might be getting close.

The guy is nothing, and I mean NOTHING special, 6mil, and 9mil? I would tell him don't let the door hit you in the A**!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

The guy is nothing, and I mean NOTHING special, 6mil, and 9mil? I would tell him don't let the door hit you in the A**!

But here's a scenerio, Offiss. Suppose you let D.Dock go. Okay, fine. Then you replace him with, first of all, who? And then at what price?

Let's say you get a guy comparable to Dockery in size, age, and perhaps ability. How do you determine this guys worth? Even if you bring in this guy at a cheaper price, is he really going to be that much cheaper? And was that dollar amount, maybe $1 or $2 million worth disrupting a line that is on the cusp of being dominate?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But here's a scenerio, Offiss. Suppose you let D.Dock go. Okay, fine. Then you replace him with, first of all, who? And then at what price?

Let's say you get a guy comparable to Dockery in size, age, and perhaps ability. How do you determine this guys worth? Even if you bring in this guy at a cheaper price, is he really going to be that much cheaper? And was that dollar amount, maybe $1 or $2 million worth disrupting a line that is on the cusp of being dominate?

Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by offiss

Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.

And Dockery actually WAS someone who we used through this draft thing you talk about, really I am so forgien to the concept of drafting our own players too. But so why would we want to get rid of one of hte few people we actually DID draft and is one of our own. Wasent that the big problem with Smoot/Perice/Clark...ect? Plus we dont have anyone that we've actually drafted latley that could fill in. I dont know about you, but I dont know how many teams start rookies on the offensive line who werent taken in the first round, and if we have to waste our 6th pick on a freaking offensive linemen, it will speak even more to the total incompetence of this front office.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.

Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a talent evaluator, and quite frankly I make no apologies for that. But I do know football.

As far as the Redskins not knowing anything about the draft, I'll have to somewhat disagree there too. We ended the season with 12 starters that were drafted or began their career as a Washington Redskin. That's better than the majority of the teams in the NFL. I would guess not more than two thirds of the teams in the league had that number of guys end the season who began their career with said team.

So the point about letting Dockery walk becasue he's average talent and we can somehow do better in the draft is a moot point. Especially since Dockery is homegrown.