Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by dmek25

we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

Good post, Everyone makes assumptions (including myself) based on the information we have. The reality is, we really don't have that much information... so speculation wins.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

I think it's fair to say that Cerrato was the whipping boy because before Gibbs got here, Cerrato was the only "football man" in the front office who had any clout. It was he and Dan Snyder. Snyder didn't know football, so to an extent he gets a pass because he shouldn't be expected to understand the nuances of the NFL. That's why he hired Cerrato.

Now that Gibbs is calling the shots, (we assume anyway) the field gets muddier and the beauracracy is as wide as it is thick -- Gregg Williams gets a say, Saunders might have a say, then there's Cerrato's input, and Snyder gets squeezed in there too.

Minus the Schottenheimer year, Cerrato took the blame because he was the most visible, "football knowledgeable" guy in the front office. If he doesn't deserve the heat he has taken, it's only because the heat is more evenly distributed now than it ever was before.

[RobH4413]

congrats on 5000 sheriff by the way.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

What has Vinnie done in his career to warrant working for the Skins?
Vinnie has never built a winning team. He came from a SF team that was imploding with cap problems and overpaid players.
Sound familiar?
Now he has been part of the Redskins worst years in recent history.
While I do not lay all of the blame on Vinnie he has done nothing to warrant staying.
By the way QB Campbell was a Joe Gibbs pick all the way. Gibbs loved the way Campbell played at Auburn and Gibbs hand picked him.

[offiss]

What did VC do on offense that was so great? Our entire offense is made up of free agents and trades for established NFL talent.

If he want's to be a real GM, or anyone else in the organization for that matter let them do it through the draft!

Jansen and Cooley and Samuels are the only drafted starters on offense, and I don't know if he was responsible for any of them.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by offiss

What did VC do on offense that was so great? Our entire offense is made up of free agents and trades for established NFL talent.

If he want's to be a real GM, or anyone else in the organization for that matter let them do it through the draft!

Jansen and Cooley and Samuels are the only drafted starters on offense, and I don't know if he was responsible for any of them.

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

Campbell will be the best QB in this division by 2008.

Write it down, lock it up.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

Have to agree with you there. I'd just really like to see a whole draft one day. Something thats not just a pick or 2 on day one. Anyway I think there are plenty of people on this board who feel the same way about that.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

I really don't like anyone who evaluates talent on our team, I know big surprise but I really don't think he has a whole lot of say about trades and draft picks, we all know that Campbell, and Portis, are Gibbs, and Gibbs alone.

And for the record I am not everyone, I was a big Moss guy.

Personally I believe the buck stops with Gibbs, do I believe Cerratto has any clue how to build a team? No! But Gibbs has final say no matter what kind of information any of these guy's feed him, so he is absolutly 100% accountable for talent evaluation, and if you can't evaluate established NFL talent which is almost all we deal with than you have no buisness handling personel.

As for Clinton Portis? I can say more, Stephen Jackson!

Rock who?

I believe Snyder drafted Betts?

Moss should have been a Skin from the start, although VC was gone when we drafted Gardner he said in an interview before we picked that Gardner was the guy we should draft.

Cooley, great pick, but don't forget we had to give up a 2nd rd pick the following season because we didn't have a #2 that season because of the Portis trade, so essentially that trade cost us 2 second rd picks, how nice would Stephen Jackson look in a Skins uniform right now? And would have cost a heck of a lot less, Not to mention the extra picks we would have kept if Bailey were to be traded for just draft picks, let's see we already know we would have had 2#2's plus in all likely hood at least an additional 1st and 2nd rd pick for Bailey and probably more than that. At least 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds that's a lot of talent we gave up [if we drafted properly] for 1 player, I will never be in favor of that trade, it cost us way to much!

[Beemnseven]

Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?

[Beemnseven]

He's a fan favorite, so I know I'm walking on eggshells when I fail to put him the upper echelon they way others do.

There was a slump he went through part of last year when he just wasn't a factor, but it was only his third year in the league with quarterback issues to deal with, so I'll allow for that.

I just need to see more of an impact before I group him with Gates, Gonzales, Witten, Crumpler, or Clark.

[#56fanatic]

its funny how this has turned into one of our players this oranization has drafted. Not set up by the previous regime. We have basically Betts (backup) cooley, Taylor, Campbell, Rogers(jury still out!) Rocky(remains to be seen) as the players that contrbute out of 49 rounds of drafting. thats 49 rounds!! take away the draft that Casserly set up, which was a no brainer w/ LaVar and Samuels and you have less impact players that are on the roster contributing. We have so many of these threads going on and its always the same thing. FO makes too many mistakes trying to win now. that mentality has to go for a year or two to build up a quality depth chart of young players. until this is done we will lead the league in all the wrong catagories(payroll, dead cap, LOSSES) Most notibly, players complaining about all the crap that goes on inside Redskin park. They do the right thing and keep it close to the vest while here, but when they leave, the flood gates open. Every player that has left this team says the same thing. It can not be dismissed as a player just dogging the team and its meaningless. There begins to be truth behind it when multiple players all say the same thing.

[Rajmahal33]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

- JC does look like he's going to do well but we did give up a good deal to get him
- CP was a great fit for our offense but we are wasting his talent by not surrounding him with a passing game (hopefully next year will be better) PLUS we did give up a pro-bowler and the best corner in the NFL in Champ
- Betts is great if we trade him but I don't think he will ever be able to carry the entire load under our offense...don't forget the fumbling issues
- Cartwright was probably the only under the radar guy that was picked up
- Cooley is great but as someone pointed out we gave up a LOT for him and they might let him leave to FA next year as well
- Santana Moss...let's not forget that our FO screwed up for a stretch there when we got Coles and he was a bust (this was the period when we were known as the jetskins and were a laughingstock)
- ARE is a great personality and player but has yet to prove that he was worth the money

ALSO notice that in the entire list above not ONE defensive player was mentioned. As everyone knows the cliche is that defense wins championships. Imagine if we had a GM that could scout defensive talent like Ozzie. Taylor was the only great defensive pick that the Cerrato era could be credited for. The jury is still out on Cartwright and Rogers has one season to prove his worth, IMO.

[Rajmahal33]

whoops, i failed to read the part that u said u were breaking down offensive players only, haha. Well at any rate, i still don't think that the FO has really focused on building the defense through the draft, which doesn't make sense to me.

U can't get rid of Gibbs (cuz its sacrilege), u can't get rid of Snyder...that leaves only Vinny C and other members of the FO to take the blame. As unfair as it is on certain levels, this is a business and sometimes for the sake of public appearance someone who doesn't deserve ALL the blame has to absorb it...So is he the anti-christ: No. But was he part of the solution in his time here: No.