08' Mercedes C-Class v.s. '08 Infiniti G35 Sedan

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

I know you want to believe that, but its not true. dealer holdback avgs 2% of invoice (ie 20k car = 400 bucks) and there' usually something called wholesale financial reserve, which usually equals about 1%. Some manufacturers are different, but this is the case with toyotas and hondas...



I always hated it when people came in and tried to act so sly and told me all about the business when they knew jack shit. One of the main reasons I left the business was that car buyers can turn into major dick-holes and will not allow honest salespeople to make a living.


Invioce DOES reflect the exact amount that the dealer strokes a check for, but they get refunded the amounts for holdback and financial reserve...

so its a deception, but you wouldn't believe how many people actually expect you to take a loss on a vehicle when they purchase one...



ladybrave, shop online and get a quote for what you want. dealing online will get you the best deal, and assure that you get the exact car you want without having to settle for something in someones inventory.

If you're not physically there looking at a new car (that isn't even what you had in mind in the first place) you have alot more bargaining chips.

use dealer's pricing against one another, but remember, the 2008 accord is a newly redesigned car, and hondas tend to sell for sticker when they first come out, even moreso than other manufacturers... you may have to wait a bit before you get your deal, but thats sometimes the price you pay to be the first on the block with the new toy.

if you get it for a few hundred bucks over invoice, you're doing great.

2008 Honda Accord optional equipment at Edmunds

edmunds is saying they're selling for sticker, but you may be able to find a deal at a mega volume store...

I'm with you on this. I like to get a deal but I also don't begrudge the salesperson trying to do their job and make a profit. The dealership is a profit making venture. I know car dealers have bad reps but I'd imagine a good percentage of them are just as honest as anyone.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

I know you want to believe that, but its not true. dealer holdback avgs 2% of invoice (ie 20k car = 400 bucks) and there' usually something called wholesale financial reserve, which usually equals about 1%. Some manufacturers are different, but this is the case with toyotas and hondas...

Sound like a car salesman if you ask me.
I know the #1 salesman for the GM dealership out here, AND I know the owner of the dealership, and we have discussed this. I know for a fact that you are incorrect. (at least on GM cars) I have never bought a toyota or honda, but I find it hard to believe that GM cars are that much different from Toyota's and Hondas.

Don't give me that sob story about needing to make a living. Have you, or have you not skrewed people with high prices?

[cpayne5]

My uncle walked into a dealership one day to buy a car. When he sat down at the salesman's desk, he pulled out an hour glass and told the guy "you have one hour to sell me this car for this much money". He drove away in his new car 45 minutes later. Paid $22,500 for a $32k MSRP Accord.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

My uncle walked into a dealership one day to buy a car. When he sat down at the salesman's desk, he pulled out an hour glass and told the guy "you have one hour to sell me this car for this much money.". He drove away in his new car 45 mins later. Paid $22,500 for a $32k MSRP Accord.

Haha... that's awesome.

The worst experience I've ever had was at a chrysler dealership. I've always driven chrysler and dodge. I was looking at a Sebring once and I had already located one in SC. I went to the dealership here and told them where the car was. The salesman started typing on his computer, looks at me and says, "there are no Red V6 Sebrings in the US right now. I really think you should reconsider the Red 4 cylinder on our lot."

WTH? Dude, I just told you where it is. He actually made me look it up on the computer and show him. I had even called the SC dealership before I got there and confirmed that they had it. Then I hear him talking to his manager and he said, "yeah, there's one in SC and one in VA." Then the guy walks around and says, "Good news! We've located the car you want."

ARGHHHH!!!!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

My uncle walked into a dealership one day to buy a car. When he sat down at the salesman's desk, he pulled out an hour glass and told the guy "you have one hour to sell me this car for this much money". He drove away in his new car 45 minutes later. Paid $22,500 for a $32k MSRP Accord.

That's what you have to do. They always try to have the ball in their court, you have to take control of the situation.
Good for him.
Most salesmen will gladly sell it to you for that price, cause they bend over so many other people each month that they more than make up for it.

[Daseal]

Canthetuna -- at the same time, many car salesman are real dick holes to. We went to a dealership to look at cars, we said from the very start we would NOT buy today, and we were simply driving to compare cars. After we left the dealership, the salesman would not stop calling us. Three times a day for a week, even after we said if we decide to buy the car, we won't be buying it from you.

I hate aggressive salesmen. You're much more likely to get my sale if you let me browse and let me come to you.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Canthetuna -- at the same time, many car salesman are real dick holes to. We went to a dealership to look at cars, we said from the very start we would NOT buy today, and we were simply driving to compare cars. After we left the dealership, the salesman would not stop calling us. Three times a day for a week, even after we said if we decide to buy the car, we won't be buying it from you.

I hate aggressive salesmen. You're much more likely to get my sale if you let me browse and let me come to you.

yeah there's a double edged sword with the calling people after the non-sale... I used to discuss phone calls before people left in order to set up expectations with them...

if they told me not to call them, i would't but I would always ask if I could call and check up with them, and try to have something else to let them know...

I've had alot of customers, though, call managers, or had managers call random customers (as the good ones do) etc.. and complain that they were'nt contacted and they felt that the salesman didn't want their business since they weren't followed up with. that happens more than you can imagine and that will get a salesman fired...

Having said that, even being in sales I hate agressive salespeople myself. Especially furniture shopping... I don't know what it is about shopping for furniture. I don't think I really need a salesman to help me pick out a couch or table, and don't like them lurking when my wife and I are talking about our decor and budget... they really piss me off.

A car, or even high end electronics I completely understand and welcome help (as long as its insightful and professional) but a fucking chair? Get a real job!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

Having said that, even being in sales I hate agressive salespeople myself. Especially furniture shopping... I don't know what it is about shopping for furniture. I don't think I really need a salesman to help me pick out a couch or table, and don't like them lurking when my wife and I are talking about our decor and budget... they really piss me off.

A car, or even high end electronics I completely understand and welcome help (as long as its insightful and professional) but a fucking chair? Get a real job!

I worked for a furniture company for 3 years as their credit and collections manager. I had to start that from the ground up. The sales people there were good people, but like you said, they needed to make a living. I watched as even the owner skrewed his own relatives. He would tell them a certain price and say "that's what I paid for it". When in fact he paid about 50% less than that for it. The lowest furniture has about a 50% mark up on it, the decent furn. has about a 75% mark up, and the high end can be anywhere from 100%-200% depending on where you are.
It's a lot harder to sell furniture than it is to sell cars. Even if you do pull off a decent sale it doesn't go very far.
A good salesman will tell you what you want to hear, while they may be good people, they are ruthless when dealing with them because it is their finnacial well being you are messing with. All sales people have to be underhanded at some point to be effective. It's a shame, but it's true. Money does that to people.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

A good salesman will tell you what you want to hear, while they may be good people, they are ruthless when dealing with them because it is their finnacial well being you are messing with. All sales people have to be underhanded at some point to be effective. It's a shame, but it's true. Money does that to people.

you're dead wrong and you're stereotyping. there are salesmen who will honestly try to meet a customers needs and make sure that their experience is pleasant. these salespeople believe they will actually earn a commission instead of tricking someone into paying one.

you've got a very bleak outlook on things.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

you're dead wrong and you're stereotyping. there are salesmen who will honestly try to meet a customers needs and make sure that their experience is pleasant. these salespeople believe they will actually earn a commission instead of tricking someone into paying one.

you've got a very bleak outlook on things.

It really is a shame that you think that way. I am not talking about something that is foriegn, in fact, if you do a simple google search about dealer cost you come up with sites like these:
Find Out MSRP, Invoice Price, And The Actual Price Of Your Desired Car, Step Three of NewCarInsider.com

Look at this quote:
Dealer Holdback
About 2% to 5% of MSRP cost is held back by the manufacturer of the car, and will be given to the dealer when the dealer actually sells the car. This amount does not depend on how many cars the dealer sells.

Action: Subtract this amount from the Invoice Price.

Hmmmmm, so assume a 25k car, that's $500 to $1250.

Here's another quote:
Factory To Dealer Cash
About $300 to $2000 per car is given back to the dealer to sell slow selling cars. (If the manufacturer has not made this factory rebate known to the public, the car dealers are not required to pass you this saving.)

Action: If the dealer has over 30 cars similar to the ones you are seeking to purchase, and these cars have been sitting on the lot for over 25 days, there may be manufacturer incentives that drive the Actual Cost down. Ask the dealer about his dealership's quantity of cars your seek, and factor in this information into calculating the Actual Car Cost.

That's already $1000-$3000, and that's not all the incentives yet.
SO if you actually know what you're talking about, why did all the car dealerships sell their cars at UNDER invoices, often times $500 under if invoice is what they paid? What marketing genius thought of selling their product for less than what they pay for?

You can attack me all you want sir, but like I said, there are thousands of sites YOU CAN SEARCH that will tell you exactly what I am telling you. You were a salesman, you likely did not see the truth.

ps- if you have ever sold a vehicle at MSRP, then you skrewed someone and you lied to me. Salesmen are out for themselves and you know it. How can they not be? It's their salary...the more they squeeze out of me, the more that goes in their pockets.
Shit, you need to take sales CLASSES on how to learn to combat people's concerns and pitches. What do you think those classes are for? To be as nice as possible to clients?

I didn't say a salesman won't try to meet a customer's needs...of course they will need to (ie: power windows, DVD player etc) because if they don't, then it's no sale, but when it comes to talking turkey, the salesman will try to squeeze every penny out of you. How you can deny that is laughable.

I'm sure you're right about some sales people being honest and caring...those are the ones that can't take doing the job and quit eventually...or not hit quota and quit.

So please don't give me your speech, I proved with a simple link that you are wrong, and there are plenty more where that came from. Maybe it's cause your are too close to the situation to see the truth...I don't know, but do a little research buddy, you might be enlightened.

In the end, there is MSRP, invoice, and then what the dealer actually pays. This is common knowledge, and easily found.

[saden1]

Not all sales people are out to shake you down. The guy that sold me my last car was a complete professional and he really cared about what I wanted and what I could actually afford (imagine that!). He even gave me some life lesson type info while we waited for financing to go through. He's probably retired by now but there's no question, the guy really wanted to take care of his customers.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by saden1

Not all sales people are out to shake you down. The guy that sold me my last car was a complete professional and he really cared about what I wanted and what I could actually afford (imagine that!). He even gave me some life lesson type info while we waited for financing to go through. He's probably retired by now but there's no question, the guy really wanted to take care of his customers.

My brother sells cars and I know for a fact that he's not out to F everyone over.

There are some good people out there, you just have to be able to wade through the pool of sharks to get to them.

[jsarno]

Funny...just saw on ESPN a Fowler Toyota Tundra commercial where there are offering 6k off MSRP.
MSRP on a 2WD SE 4.7L - $27,915
INVOICE on same vehicle- $25,331
6k minus the MSRP is - $21,915

That's a difference of $3,416 OFF INVOICE!!!!!!

Hmm, I thought Honda's and Toyota's were different? I guess that dealership is just being nice and selling their cars at a massive discount and less than what they paid??? In a crazy scheme to make a profit, they are selling their cars at less than what they paid for them! HAHAHA. Yet again, I have proved my point.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Funny...just saw on ESPN a Fowler Toyota Tundra commercial where there are offering 6k off MSRP.
MSRP on a 2WD SE 4.7L - $27,915
INVOICE on same vehicle- $25,331
6k minus the MSRP is - $21,915

That's a difference of $3,416 OFF INVOICE!!!!!!

Hmm, I thought Honda's and Toyota's were different? I guess that dealership is just being nice and selling their cars at a massive discount and less than what they paid??? In a crazy scheme to make a profit, they are selling their cars at less than what they paid for them! HAHAHA. Yet again, I have proved my point.

Yeah, but.....
"For a limited time only, we have to clear our lots for the new models. This is once in a lifetime opportunity!!!!"

And don't they make all of their billions off of overpriced replacement parts put in by their slow overpriced "specialists?"

[mredskins]

Jsarno, dude didn't you just right an apology thread on here for acting like a jerk????

I generaly like your post but I think you are really pushing the envelop here.