Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

[GTripp0012]

Early in his 2nd tenure, Gibbs' certainly made a bunch of personnel mistakes...and then he made some critical ones in the 2006 offseason, all of which led to the team lacking depth.

When I say "talent" I don't mean like combine measurables. I mean, total product based on the complete body of work from each team this year based on who they played. My fault on the confusion there, I could have been more clear.

The only positions we really have Philly at is quarterback, and probably linebacker. I'm not sure we have Tampa anywhere.

And then the other issue is of course the first half of this season we were playing with an entire quality of defensive talent different from what we are playing with now. Rogers and Taylor, Griffin was healthy and dominating, but has been slowed, and Montgomery has definately hit the hypothetical wall that comes with starting over a long season. All this has led to a massive regression in the middle of the field and on the edges, and basically we can't stop the run or the short passes, and recently we've had trouble making big plays.

Now we are playing with last year's defense and an offense that is well behind where it was in the Brunell-era (not that quarterback play is to blame for it. we've gotten pretty consistent QB play in the last 3 years). The running game is just so horrible, and Randy Thomas' return is just going to take Fabini off the field, who was doing a good job.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Early in his 2nd tenure, Gibbs' certainly made a bunch of personnel mistakes...and then he made some critical ones in the 2006 offseason, all of which led to the team lacking depth.

When I say "talent" I don't mean like combine measurables. I mean, total product based on the complete body of work from each team this year based on who they played. My fault on the confusion there, I could have been more clear.

The only positions we really have Philly at is quarterback, and probably linebacker. I'm not sure we have Tampa anywhere.

And then the other issue is of course the first half of this season we were playing with an entire quality of defensive talent different from what we are playing with now. Rogers and Taylor, Griffin was healthy and dominating, but has been slowed, and Montgomery has definately hit the hypothetical wall that comes with starting over a long season. All this has led to a massive regression in the middle of the field and on the edges, and basically we can't stop the run or the short passes, and recently we've had trouble making big plays.

Now we are playing with last year's defense and an offense that is well behind where it was in the Brunell-era (not that quarterback play is to blame for it. we've gotten pretty consistent QB play in the last 3 years). The running game is just so horrible, and Randy Thomas' return is just going to take Fabini off the field, who was doing a good job.

Tampa? Sure Campbell is better than Gradkowski. Well, at least that's who played against us. And Tampa is down to, what, their third running back. Point being, they too have injuries to cope with. Outside of Galloway, who's the real recieving threat down there? You'd be grasping at straws to say they're more talented at than we are at TE and WR.

See, the real question really isn't who's more talented anyway. It's who get's more production out of what they have?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Tampa? Sure Campbell is better than Gradkowski. Well, at least that's who played against us. And Tampa is down to, what, their third running back. Point being, they too have injuries to cope with. Outside of Galloway, who's the real recieving threat down there? You'd be grasping at straws to say they're more talented at than we are at TE and WR.

See, the real question really isn't who's more talented anyway. It's who get's more production out of what they have?

TE...no. WR, yes they are.

To me, talent and production are one in the same. I use the words interchanably. After all, it doesn't matter how much physical skill you have, your football SKILL will never exceed your production.

[freddyg12]

Before anyone, including the Danny, evaluates Gibbs II, you must differentiate between his two stints. In his first, he was just head coach. Now, he is head coach/team prez., a role he has never done before in football.

When I look at Gibbs II I would sum it up as:

1) clearly not the HOF coach of past, mainly due to clock mgmt & game time decisions, but has brought success w/the playoffs in 05.

2) As a team pres. & talent evaluator; Gibbs has laid the foundation for a decent team & seems to have impacted the Danny in some ways. We have a future qb & some youth on defense. Obviously there are holes to fill. On the other hand under Gibbs some terrible personel/salary cap decisions were made.

Is this Gibbs' learning curve or is this something beyond his control that he's willing (or under contract obligated) to take the heat for? Who is repsonsible for AA, B Loyd & the very notion that we could buy some free agents & get to the super bowl?

It seems Gibbs, based on his past & what's happened in Gibbs II, has always believed in free agency as a means of building a team. However, I'm inclined to believe that he's learned to be cautious w/this approach in today's game. Too bad it took 3 years to learn, but I believe he can leave the team w/a philosophical direction to build on.

In sum, Gibbs is not the coach he once was but can still win. He earns a solid C at best at this point as team president. In all fairness to his legacy, this was a new job for him & he took over a tough one w/the Danny & Vinny used to doing it Danny's way.

He deserves criticism but he also deserves another year & the chance to transition this team into the future. MUch like Parcells did in Dallas, we may see Gibbs' success as team president come after he's retired. For now, give all your support to Joe Gibbs!

[irish]

Gibbs cant be fired. DS wont do it and it would be a PR nightmare for a team that is already pretty heavily morgaged on the fan's goodwill. They will never risk the fan's rath by firing Gibbs.

I used to think Gibbs was going to step aside at the end of the year but now with all the ST stuff and the team doing it November swoon again I realy thank that unfortunately Gibbs will be back to finish out his contract.

[BrunellMVP?]

Take a look at my name...does anyone here think I've not been bashing players, who in my eyes, are grossly underperforming? If I knew how to change it, I'd have something on hear about B. Lloyd. Trust me, I'm certainly not one to give players the free pass...


Presently, I'm of the opinion that Moss is no longer a premier WR...as far as i'm concerned he's had one good year (2005) and done little thereafter. He's injury prone and no longer explosive for the 80 yard trots down the sideline.

I also believe that Portis is no longer a premier back (bordering on average)- but when I make this comment, people jump down my throat about the line issues (and they are right), except, I believe that Great backs (which is what I'm told Clinton is) should do more than 3.9 yards per carry even with an injured line. Where's his explosiveness? why can't he break a long gain? he's got to lead the NFL in most carries without a TD of 25 yards or more.

I'm frustrated with Jason C. but I think he'll be VERY GOOD soon, so I look the other way.
plus other people are mentioning it.

As far as the D is concerned, I'm EXTREMELY frustrated with the lack of pressure from the D-line. we aren't stepping up and making plays...way too much time...but that is enough venting.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

I also believe that Portis is no longer a premier back (bordering on average)- but when I make this comment, people jump down my throat about the line issues (and they are right), except, I believe that Great backs (which is what I'm told Clinton is) should do more than 3.9 yards per carry even with an injured line. Where's his explosiveness? why can't he break a long gain? he's got to lead the NFL in most carries without a TD of 25 yards or more.
.

What's with CP running so soft this year? It seems like he's caught Jamal Lewis syndrome where he takes a lot of quick little steps at the line and can't get it going. I'd like to see him get back to being the one cut and take off runner that he used to be... (I guess this could all be caused by the line.)

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

What's with CP running so soft this year? It seems like he's caught Jamal Lewis syndrome where he takes a lot of quick little steps at the line and can't get it going. I'd like to see him get back to being the one cut and take off runner that he used to be... (I guess this could all be caused by the line.)

agreed. The line is def. responsible for CP's lack of a 130 yards per game average- but, like i said, in my mind, he should be a lot better than than he is, which is just below or at average. he got 2 yards a carry last week against a weak run defense. If he's like Jamal, i hope next year CP has the same type of rebirth, because nobody is going to take his contract.

Betts must be fuming...no way he knew he was signing on to be a full time backup.

[redsk1]

I'm tending to agree about Moss. A fine #2 reciever, but not sure he's a #1.

I keep also hearing that the players should take some of the heat too. They should. However, Gibbs brings the players in. Example #1. Yes, we blamed Brunell for about everything, as well deserved. However, I place major blame on Gibbs for bringing him in. He had about 0 in the tank at that point. I can't remember any nfl guru's thinking that was a good move. Point being, if you are going to blame the players part of that lies on JG's too.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I'm tending to agree about Moss. A fine #2 reciever, but not sure he's a #1.

I keep also hearing that the players should take some of the heat too. They should. However, Gibbs brings the players in. Example #1. Yes, we blamed Brunell for about everything, as well deserved. However, I place major blame on Gibbs for bringing him in. He had about 0 in the tank at that point. I can't remember any nfl guru's thinking that was a good move. Point being, if you are going to blame the players part of that lies on JG's too.

On top of that he gave up a draft pick for the guy when he didn't have to. That alone is a move that gets people fired.

[flashalexb]

I think that Portis is so worried about fumbling that he is hesitant to do some of the things he used to do that made him an elite back. Hopefully he watched film and took notes on how Willis McGahee played against the Patriots. Down Hill running

[Cowell]

Honestly I think Gibbs should retire to keep some dignity. I know there are plenty of people who never want to see Gibbs leave and if anyone brings anti-Gibbs propaganda near them they put a wall up and don't listen but the bottom line is he just doesen't cut it. I know what he has done for this franchise but what has he done recently? Would you guys like him to stay here and just keep watching this team lose just because what he did 20 years ago?

[EternalEnigma21]

I could be wrong, but...

JG is not an idiot. He's seen what's been going on here the last decade or so and he's familiar with the owner. Id be willing to bet that Snyder has an arrangement with Gibbs that he won't be fired for performance. That would be a pr nightmare on both sides, and if you detach yourself from the situation, would it even make sense for snyder to let him walk at this point? Starting over with a new coach and a new system doesn't sound like a great season, and we've won alot more football with joe than without him...

[sandtrapjack]

If it was anyone else but Joe Gibbs, that coach would be gone at seasons end.

26-34 is not a great record. It is a 43% winning percentage. In his first season back we knew thier would be growing pains. The play clock got shorter since he retired, and it showed that he was not familiar with that.

He still likes big power backs that will eat up clock. Nothing wrong with that, but the rules changed while he was gone and the vertical game is really encouraged because of the rules. He is predictable, especially insode the 20.

Then we figured after 2 or 3 years, we would have the "Old Gibbs" back in form and punishing opposing teams and winning championships.

But as evidence from the Buffalo game, he has proven that he still has not caught up to the NFL since he retired. He did not know about the 10 men on defense as a tribute to Taylor. His defense did, his defensive coordinator did. Problem was no one communicated it to the head coach. He does not have control of his team.

He is a head coach in the NFL! It was an EMBARASSMENT to the team when he called that second consecutive timeout, hell even I knew that rule. That move only further questions his grasp of the game. This is the type of call he should have been re-adjusted to since returning.

But he left football before free agency, before the salary cap. Draft picks were traded and millions of salary cap dollars were spent providing him with what he said he needed for a winner. High price talent, and very little youth.

Now the team could be facing serious cap issues, and not enough draft picks for the future. If he does leave, his replacement may have very little to work with.

I think Gibbs needs to leave before his legacy is tarnished more than it already is.

[MTK]

Personally I don't think it was a big deal that Gibbs didn't know about the 10 men salute to Taylor. According to what I've read it was something that wasn't finalized until the night before the game. GW pretty much has full autonomy over the defense, so if he felt it wasn't critical to communicate this to Gibbs... who the F cares?

But I guess if you want to pile on...