Marching Orders... Interesting Points

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Redskin Jim

Don't worry gents we are on pace to beat all 32 teams lineman on offense and defense... TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY LINE!

LMAO. Oh man that got me going.

[Redskin Jim]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

LMAO. Oh man that got me going.

Better to laugh than cry brother.. Hopefully we are not the only ones that see our lineman as a joke...

[Ruhskins]

This was a good article, and I do get the sense that the front office will notice this. I can't believe that I'm doing this, but I'm going to come out and say something positive about the Redskins FO. I think that their mistakes in the past are being dragged around by the media and the fans, yet when you stop to look at what has happened, I think they are slowly improving.

Snyder learned to let go a bit under Gibbs, and I think he grew up a bit during this period. He wants to win badly, but unfortunately he believes this can be done right away if you throw a lot of money at the situation. Snyder wanted to bring Jim Fassel this past offseason, and the fan base exploded. The old Snyder would not have cared and hired Fassel, the new Snyder hired Jim Zorn. Zorn did OK, he still has a lot to learn, but did not fail as many first year coaches typically do.

The Front Office had a quiet offseason last year and did not go into their usual shopping spree. The only big acquisition was Jason Taylor, which unfortunately did not work out due to injuries...but this wasn't a Archuleta or Brandon Lloyd signing (players with questionable abilities) Taylor had come off a huge year (not a contract year) when his team sucked and went 1-15.

While some pundits and fans were calling for the Skins to bolster its d-line last offseson, another big concern that the Redskins had was getting another target for Campbell and someone that would take the heat from Santana Moss. While the Redskins flirted with the possibility of getting Chad Johnson or Anquan Boldin, they decided to "build through the draft". The jury is still out on the rookies, but they did not turn to their old ways of trading picks away.

In regards to the offensive line, I think this may have become a lesser priority next to getting a WR and a defensive lineman. Two seasons ago, many of us thought that the problem with our o-line was that they could never be in the field together as they got hurt a lot. I was one of the fans that called for a complimentary receiver/big possession receiver, and thought of this as the cure for our offensive problems. Now I believe that I, along with any fan/sports pundit, was wrong in thinking that a WR was a bigger need. I think many of us and the front office disregarded the fact that the o-line was getting older and of course that materialized in the problems the team had in the second half of the season.

Our front office has a lot to learn, but they have improved. Snyder has shown patience this year, and kept Zorn (the old Snyder would have booted him and Shanahan would have been hired). With only four picks, the need to inject youth into the team, improve the offense, and take our defense to the next level, this offseason will be a real test for the front office and the owner.

[Daseal]

How dare the Ravens draft Offensive Lineman. Don't they know you need Receivers to win in this league. pffffft. You know the Ravens could learn a thing or two from the way Vinny Cerrato does things.

Let's look at the Cardinals. Two pro bowl receivers. Unlike the Ravens, they're in the super bowl. How about the other team, the Steelers. Another team with two very good receivers in Ward and Holmes.

In order to win in this league you need a balanced team. Personally, if I were building a team I'd go for a high octane offense paired with ball hawking/opportunistic defense. Make em' throw and turn em' over.

But really, the Steelers offensive line isn't that great. Baltimore seems to often choose best available talent. They didn't particularly need Suggs when he came out, but he fell to them so they hopped on him.

Everything said, I'm ready to bust this team apart and start from scratch. However, as the article mentions, the salaries we have won't allow for that to happen in a timely manner. Make each pick count, stay away from D line for now, too risky.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let's look at the Cardinals. Two pro bowl receivers. Unlike the Ravens, they're in the super bowl. How about the other team, the Steelers. Another team with two very good receivers in Ward and Holmes.

In order to win in this league you need a balanced team. Personally, if I were building a team I'd go for a high octane offense paired with ball hawking/opportunistic defense. Make em' throw and turn em' over.

But really, the Steelers offensive line isn't that great. Baltimore seems to often choose best available talent. They didn't particularly need Suggs when he came out, but he fell to them so they hopped on him.

Everything said, I'm ready to bust this team apart and start from scratch. However, as the article mentions, the salaries we have won't allow for that to happen in a timely manner. Make each pick count, stay away from D line for now, too risky.

Very good point. Arizona had a good offense, but would not have survived the playoffs without their defense stepping up.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let's look at the Cardinals. Two pro bowl receivers. Unlike the Ravens, they're in the super bowl. How about the other team, the Steelers. Another team with two very good receivers in Ward and Holmes.

In order to win in this league you need a balanced team. Personally, if I were building a team I'd go for a high octane offense paired with ball hawking/opportunistic defense. Make em' throw and turn em' over.

But really, the Steelers offensive line isn't that great. Baltimore seems to often choose best available talent. They didn't particularly need Suggs when he came out, but he fell to them so they hopped on him.

Everything said, I'm ready to bust this team apart and start from scratch. However, as the article mentions, the salaries we have won't allow for that to happen in a timely manner. Make each pick count, stay away from D line for now, too risky.

You forgot to mention that the Cardinals have beneiftted from top class O-Line play during the last three weeks. Wisenhunt has gone out of his way to give credit to the O-Line during the playoff run.

Also keep in mind that out of the previous 14 Super Bowl winners only one team had a reciever with 1,200+ yards, and that was the Colts who ironically had my two most important offenisve cogs in an elite QB and a top notch O-Line.

Which brings me to the Steelers. Well you're right they don't have a great offensive line, instead they have a top notch Quarterback that is capable of running the offense. However the main reason the Steelers are in the Super Bowl is because of their defense which despite being ranked only 2 or 3 spots ahead of us is in a class of it's own. They actually remind me of the Raven's from 2001, just with a better Quarterback. So if we can get a defense that is capable of truly dominating a game then by all means we can pass up taking O-Lineman.

You're right though, balance is very important, and right now as a team we have a huge inbalance as it relates to our offensive line, in part because we've used so many draft picks on Recievers since the turn of the century. I also agree that going D-Line early in the draft right now is a little risky but if the Big 4 are gone and BJ Rali falls in our laps then I'll be more then happy to make him a Redskin.

Also I feel that if we can come away with two new starters in this draft (ie a new Guard and RT) then our offense will be exponentially better then it was last year (of course due in part to Campbells experience with the offense), and as it relates to leaving our defense alone, well from what I've seen with the exception of 2003 and 2006 our defense has managed to find a way to get the job done. Then again these things seem to happen in three's so I guess that settles it. In 2009 our defense will suck because of the number "3".

[Beemnseven]

I think it's also important to look at how successful teams don't necessarily have one workhorse running back who gets run into the ground all year long. Take a look at the teams who have recently had deep playoff runs...

-- Giants in 2007, leading rusher was Brandon Jacobs with 1009 yards

-- Arizona this year, leading rushers were Hightower and Edge -- combined for just 913 yards

-- Pittsburgh this year, Willie Parker gains just 791 yards

Also, check out the stats over at NFL.com for the running backs who had the most carries. Look at how many of those teams made it to the playoffs. You have to go down to the guy who had the 12th most carries (Chris Johnson of Tennessee) to find out who had the deepest playoff run. At #17, 18, and 19 it was Brian Westbrook, LaRon McClain of the Ravens, and Brandon Jacobs. With the exception of Adrian Peterson of Minnesota, no playoff team had any running back have more than 292 carries for the season.

So I think this shows that we have placed too great a priority (and spent way too much money) on the "Superman" theory of running backs. You know, just hand the ball off to one guy and he will singlehandedly carry your team to the promised land. All that does is burn him out of gas, and it makes your offense dependent on the health of one guy.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think it's also important to look at how successful teams don't necessarily have one workhorse running back who gets run into the ground all year long. Take a look at the teams who have recently had deep playoff runs...

-- Giants in 2007, leading rusher was Brandon Jacobs with 1009 yards

-- Arizona this year, leading rushers were Hightower and Edge -- combined for just 913 yards

-- Pittsburgh this year, Willie Parker gains just 791 yards

Also, check out the stats over at NFL.com for the running backs who had the most carries. Look at how many of those teams made it to the playoffs. You have to go down to the guy who had the 12th most carries (Chris Johnson of Tennessee) to find out who had the deepest playoff run. At #17, 18, and 19 it was Brian Westbrook, LaRon McClain of the Ravens, and Brandon Jacobs. With the exception of Adrian Peterson of Minnesota, every other team who had running backs that carried the ball more than anyone else either didn't make the playoffs or were 'one and done' when they got there.

So I think this shows that we have placed too great a priority (and spent way too much money) on the "Superman" theory of running backs. You know, just hand the ball off to one guy and he will singlehandedly carry your team to the promised land. All that does is burn him out of gas, and it makes your offense dependent on the health of one guy.

And look at receptions as well. Most of those teams had a back who caught at least 40 balls. If our receivers and O line were so bad, then why didn't Zorn do more to get the backs involved in the passing attack? Look at how effectively teams like Miami, Atlanta and San Diego used their backs in the passing game. And even Minnesota mixed things up with Chester Taylor. He had 101 carries and 45 receptions, while Betts only had 61 and 22. The way Zorn used the RBs was just plain stupid.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let's look at the Cardinals. Two pro bowl receivers. Unlike the Ravens, they're in the super bowl. How about the other team, the Steelers. Another team with two very good receivers in Ward and Holmes.

In order to win in this league you need a balanced team. Personally, if I were building a team I'd go for a high octane offense paired with ball hawking/opportunistic defense. Make em' throw and turn em' over.

But really, the Steelers offensive line isn't that great. Baltimore seems to often choose best available talent. They didn't particularly need Suggs when he came out, but he fell to them so they hopped on him.

Everything said, I'm ready to bust this team apart and start from scratch. However, as the article mentions, the salaries we have won't allow for that to happen in a timely manner. Make each pick count, stay away from D line for now, too risky.

I'd argue that the Cardinals are the exception and not the rule. The Cardinals were only 9-7, and happened to get hot and lucky at the right time. If the Ravens or Titans were in the NFC they would have crushed the Cardinals with their mediocre talent at the wide receiver position. I'd rather the Skins build a team like those teams vs. a team like the Cardinals. 9-7 won't win the NFC East like it did the NFC West.

And while Holmes and Ward are good, they're certainly not Fitzgerald and Boldin or even in the elite class of receivers like those guys. And even with Holmes and Ward, it's Big Ben keeping every play alive with his feet that makes that offense go. They actually won their last Super Bowl after getting rid of Plaxico Burress and before Holmes got there.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let's look at the Cardinals. Two pro bowl receivers. Unlike the Ravens, they're in the super bowl. How about the other team, the Steelers. Another team with two very good receivers in Ward and Holmes.

In order to win in this league you need a balanced team. Personally, if I were building a team I'd go for a high octane offense paired with ball hawking/opportunistic defense. Make em' throw and turn em' over.

But really, the Steelers offensive line isn't that great. Baltimore seems to often choose best available talent. They didn't particularly need Suggs when he came out, but he fell to them so they hopped on him.

Everything said, I'm ready to bust this team apart and start from scratch. However, as the article mentions, the salaries we have won't allow for that to happen in a timely manner. Make each pick count, stay away from D line for now, too risky.

Nice post. Very nice.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Nice post. Very nice.

So is this thread! Very nice! I actually tried to post in the News Article forum first thing yesterday because I found it to be so insightful. Readers, do not try to post in the news article!

I hope we do go with OL/DL or vice-versa, but I hope we trade down in order to accumulate more picks. It would be nice to have those three Number #2s............

[irish]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Let's look at the Cardinals. Two pro bowl receivers. Unlike the Ravens, they're in the super bowl. How about the other team, the Steelers. Another team with two very good receivers in Ward and Holmes.

In order to win in this league you need a balanced team. Personally, if I were building a team I'd go for a high octane offense paired with ball hawking/opportunistic defense. Make em' throw and turn em' over.

But really, the Steelers offensive line isn't that great. Baltimore seems to often choose best available talent. They didn't particularly need Suggs when he came out, but he fell to them so they hopped on him.

Everything said, I'm ready to bust this team apart and start from scratch. However, as the article mentions, the salaries we have won't allow for that to happen in a timely manner. Make each pick count, stay away from D line for now, too risky.

I think the point isnt what kind of team is needed to win, its how to get that winning team. For some reason the Redskins still dont get how its done. I just dont see this organization changing the way it does business until the business owner changes and that aint gonna happen anytime soon.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by irish

I think the point isnt what kind of team is needed to win, its how to get that winning team. For some reason the Redskins still dont get how its done. I just dont see this organization changing the way it does business until the business owner changes and that aint gonna happen anytime soon.

You beat me to it Irish, that is it.
For the longest time I have not like the rengotiaton game with the cap. Every offseason we start over the cap and we have work our way below it.
Every year we have players on the roser that are high paid and are not contributuing enough to warrant their pay. Then we can not get rid of them cause of the cap hit or we take a big hit. This year Jon Jansen and Fred Smoot are the example. We can not cut them even though it would better for the team to get rid of their bloated salaries and subpar play with younger/cheaper players.
There guys on this sight that have called what Snyder has done with the cap "genious". I never thought it to be genious because ultimately we do not win enough on the field. It is clever but it has onot worked.
We trade draft picks for old veterans. Then when we do use the few draft picks, under Snyderatto we have drafted mostly skill position players.
All of this it goes against what the repeat Super Bowl winning teams are doing.
While Snyder might be clever in getting around the salary cap, his teams have had no success on the field.

[djnemo65]

The problem with last year's draft was not that we chose receivers, but that they ended up sucking. Last time I checked, the NFC representative in the Superbowl was built around dynamic WR's and superior secondary play. I mean, the Cardinals aren't elite in either trench. The Colts are a team that has won a recent Superbowl - unlike those mentioned in this article - who place a tremendous premium on selecting offensive skill position players early and often, while neglecting their defensive line. And they've done aight. As Mel Kiper said in defending us last year post-draft, as some questioned our decision to draft three receivers, you can't do it all in one year. A polite way of saying that, on a team as old and hole-filled as ours, a team whose reserves had been depleted of youth from years of mortaging draft picks, it was going to take a few 10 pick stock-ups to get us back to where we need to be.

So yeah, we should draft linemen, and linebackers, and every other position too. But let's not pretend that Vinny's draft choices from last year are the reason we are where we are now. That goes back years, to Gibbs and Spurrier and before even.

[SmootSmack]

The Falcons, Ravens, and Dolphins are all the flavor of the moment...but what if they fall flat on their asses next year? Are we going to praise them again?