Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

ohh, gotcha...

As far as him being worth $16M guaranteed, I just don't know. Gamble may have been a bit overpaid, but he's very good and fits their scheme well.

I agree with you that Gambel is overpaid (grossly so IMO), but that doesnt change the fact that it "raised the bar" for what every FA corner is going to expect. Salaries are always going to escalate and we need to keep that in mind. If Hall were 2-3 years older or had ever had discipline problems in the lockerroom or on the field, and we didnt have issues with every single one of our other CB positions right now, I would be singing a different tune.

But to me, Hall isnt asking for anything unreasonable. Negotiating is one thing, but squabbling with him over 4M garaunteed when his his offer is very fair, could be interpreted by Hall as insulting and disrespectful.

[tryfuhl]

Our corner situation could drop us from one of the best secondaries to a huge question mark. Meet him in the middle.

[saden1]

If he's getting anything it should be an incentive laced deal. No way I'd pay him a huge contract after getting cut from the Raiders and playing half a season. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a fat deal from the Skins though, this is still a team owned by Snyder after all.

[SBXVII]

His whole crap in Oakland is BS. He did not fit the system so they bash him. He did fairly well previously and did well for us so I don't count the Raiders.

As far as gauranteed money? I think it all depends on how much is in the contract and for how long. Perhaps they are offering him 40 mill for 4-5 yrs which is 10 mill more then we have been offering most contracted people especially CB's and WR's, but they lowered his gaurenteed money from 16mill to 12 mill. I don't have a problem with that. I think it all depends on how they tweek the contract. Now if they offered the same typical contract as ARE, Lloyd, Archeletta, 30 mill and for what 4-6 yrs and who knows what gaurenteed then no not fair.

I'm glad Vinny/Snyder are actually thinking about their pockets now so long as the Skins have the rights to try and match any other team who comes up with something better.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I just don't understand why we're going to let Rogers walk or trade him and keep only Hall. I mean are we thinking that Springs can make it through one more season before we draft another corner. I know it's been back and forth on how people feel, but Rogers, dropped interceptions aside is a very, very good corner.

[steveo395]

This is not low-balling Hall at all. He is not that good in coverage. He gets burned all the time, but he does have good ball skills. Rogers is a much better tackler and cover corner, he just cant catch and he has better character. If we have to get rid of one of them, I would rather it be Hall.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by steveo395

This is not low-balling Hall at all. He is not that good in coverage. He gets burned all the time, but he does have good ball skills. Rogers is a much better tackler and cover corner, he just cant catch and he has better character. If we have to get rid of one of them, I would rather it be Hall.

I agree. We can get more in the long run for Carlos. We've got him on contract for next year regardless. I would see who's available before I'd sign Hall. I'd rather have a crap load of Camp Fodder to bring in an undrafted rookie who is a better cover than to sign Hall.
Then again I'd rather lose a season or two to rebuild the team. Hall isn't taking us to the promise land and we can ill afford to draft another CB right now.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

For me, I'm OK with leaving a little bit of a hole if it means we can keep our homegrown talent like Rogers. With limited draft picks this year we need to look at some true blue chip talent with that 13rd round pick. Last year, moving back was definitely feasible. While the draft is truly a crap shoot, there is some great talent at the Skins areas of need, namely along the defensive and offensive lines that will be available.

I don't want us trading pick to pick up a second tier OL, CB, or LB when we have the pick sitting in our laps...

[Dirtbag59]

It's looking more and more now like we're going to go into 2009 with Hall, Smoot, and Tryon as our top 3 corners. Not the worse drop off but heres to hoping that Smoot works hard this offseason so we can get at least one more good year from him. My only concern though is giving the front office an out to go after another Corner through the draft.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

It's looking more and more now like we're going to go into 2009 with Hall, Smoot, and Tryon as our top 3 corners. Not the worse drop off but heres to hoping that Smoot works hard this offseason so we can get at least one more good year from him. My only concern though is giving the front office an out to go after another Corner through the draft.

That's a HUGE dropoff IMO.
Springs can rarely stay healthy thru a whole year, and Smoot's no iron man out there. Plus, God only knows about Tryon.
I don't see why we are just assuming that Rogers isn't here next year? Is his contract up or will he be an UFA after next season so we're just hoping to get something for him while we can?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

It's the Oakland days that are making him damaged goods. While Gamble, Clements, etc, might have had down years, none of them have been called locker-room cancer or have been victimized more times in a season like Hall has. I don't know if anyone remembers, but Hall was beaten more than ANY OTHER DB IN THE NFL while he was on Oakland.

I think he knows and the rest of the league knows that while the talent might still be there, he's got a lot of red flags that go with it, hence the lower initial salary.

That and the economic restrictions outlined above.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

It's the Oakland days that are making him damaged goods. While Gamble, Clements, etc, might have had down years, none of them have been called locker-room cancer or have been victimized more times in a season like Hall has. I don't know if anyone remembers, but Hall was beaten more than ANY OTHER DB IN THE NFL while he was on Oakland.

I think he knows and the rest of the league knows that while the talent might still be there, he's got a lot of red flags that go with it, hence the lower initial salary.

That and the economic restrictions outlined above.

I don't really consider him a locker room cancer. He played for a terrible Atlanta team last year then went to an even worse Raider team. When he came here he came to a team that has the talent to win. Oakland is where players go to die, they call it the black hole because that's what it is a shithole. That team is probaly the worst ran team in the NFL and the only cancer that team has is Al Davis.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

I don't really consider him a locker room cancer. He played for a terrible Atlanta team last year then went to an even worse Raider team. When he came here he came to a team that has the talent to win. Oakland is where players go to die, they call it the black hole because that's what it is a shithole. That team is probaly the worst ran team in the NFL and the only cancer that team has is Al Davis.

While that's true to an extent, there are still players like that DB who I DO NOT feel like looking up who still performs well on the Raiders. I think by comparison he looked pretty good when at least one DB was playing well for them.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think we played hardball with Antonio Pierce. NY paid a pretty good contract for him and while I think GW had SOME hand in letting him walk, we definitely would have been a little more strapped now if he were on the team with a similar contract to NY's.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I don't think we played hardball with Antonio Pierce. NY paid a pretty good contract for him and while I think GW had SOME hand in letting him walk, we definitely would have been a little more strapped now if he were on the team with a similar contract to NY's.

True, but we also wouldnt have needed to sign Fletcher, so we need to take his salary into account (not that I dislike fletcher, he's my favorite defensive player).

And also, if we hadnt let Ryan Clark go, we wouldnt have needed to use our #6 overall pick in the 2007 draft on Landry and could have addressed our DL by getting DT Amobi Okoye (my favorite at the time). More likely than not, however, we would have used the pick on a WR andTed Ginn Jr. was taken two spots after that. If we had gotten him, we probably wouldnt have used 3 2nd rounders last year on passcatchers who didnt contribute and addressed our lines then.... do you see the trickledown effect?

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but if you can resign your own proven playmakers, then you dont have to spend money and draft picks gambling on draft picks and free agents to replace them. For the first time in years, we have a truly stellar defensive backfield (top 3 in the league without a doubt). We need to do whatever we can within reason to keep these guys together so we can address other areas of our team.