How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by DIRTEE

If you play them all preseason, they will be fine for the regular season. The real question is when will we see the mythical double tight end formation featuring Fred Davis and Chris Cooley in the redzone.

The same day you will see the mythical double RB formation they talked about in the offseason last year. :smashfrea

[Meks]

i dont consider it fair to CUT them, when we really dont give them a chance to produce as much as we'd like to see.... it has A WHOLE LOT to do with the play -calling and the QB, i still say give them more time even if this year isnt thier greatest

[Redskin Jim]

Originally Posted by Meks

i dont consider it fair to CUT them, when we really dont give them a chance to produce as much as we'd like to see.... it has A WHOLE LOT to do with the play -calling and the QB, i still say give them more time even if this year isnt thier greatest

I agree, it doesn't make since to draft them last year, and spend the time developing their game, just to cut them.. I do think at some time this season, (hopefully earlier than later), they must be forced to step up their game. In other words: Fly or Die! and push them out of their nest.. They both have the tools to be big contributers and we need their size and speed on the field, The Skins just need to force these two into the roles we drafted them to play..

[CRedskinsRule]

ok, so i refrained for 3 pages, but i gotta atleast get it in:

hopefully longer than we keep Hixon.

K I said it, I will leave it alone now!

[Paintrain]

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

Those are good stats for sure. Makes me feel better about Devin and Malcolm. I don't think anyone suggested we cut the cord with either of them right now though. IMO, unless 2009 is a total disaster for them stats-wise, they'll both be Redskins in 2010 as well.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

Excellent post.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

Out of all the players on that list, only Santana Moss and Roddy White were drafted above the third round.

I think it's way too early to just throw in the towel on our second rounders, but you could and should say that the rookie years were a colossal disappointment, and that (for a diverse set of reasons), none of the players we drafted last year could handle being a fourth option in an NFL offense, which means their behind schedule.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Out of all the players on that list, only Santana Moss and Roddy White were drafted above the third round.

I think it's way too early to just throw in the towel on our second rounders, but you could and should say that the rookie years were a colossal disappointment, and that (for a diverse set of reasons), none of the players we drafted last year could handle being a fourth option in an NFL offense, which means their behind schedule.

Yeah, I agree with this. Also our offensive line has to improve to the point where we can specifically determine if Thomas or Kelly are the weak spots in our offense.

[Warren85Ellard]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Out of all the players on that list, only Santana Moss and Roddy White were drafted above the third round.

I think it's way too early to just throw in the towel on our second rounders, but you could and should say that the rookie years were a colossal disappointment, and that (for a diverse set of reasons), none of the players we drafted last year could handle being a fourth option in an NFL offense, which means their behind schedule.

I agree man. Also, I'd like to know what the coaches and teammates were saying about those guys from the list, in regards to their work ethic.....for instance, I doubt that guys like Steve Smith and T.O. were ever known as slackers..... If Devin Thomas has a poor work ethic, why didn't we know this before we drafted him?

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

Nice stats! How long did it take for you to dig those up? Kelly and Thomas will be here for at least through the end of their contract. Can't judge how a guy is going to turn out by a rookie season like you perfectly pointed out with these stats. If they don't cut the mustard just don't resign them. By that time they should be producing, so the issue will be moot hopefully. I just hope Kelly gets healthy and stays that way unlike Taylor Jacobs, a total waste of cap space.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Nice stats! How long did it take for you to dig those up? Kelly and Thomas will be here for at least through the end of their contract. Can't judge how a guy is going to turn out by a rookie season like you perfectly pointed out with these stats. If they don't cut the mustard just don't resign them. By that time they should be producing, so the issue will be moot hopefully. I just hope Kelly gets healthy and stays that way unlike Taylor Jacobs, a total waste of cap space.

About 10 minutes sitting on a conference call while surfing NFL.com. That's the funny thing, people are so quick to complain about things without any realistic perspective. It took no time to gain some comparisons to successful vets and show that 1st year production means zip as a career predictor.

Sure they were a disappointment, but they were rookies, with a rookie head coach, rookie play caller and a QB without experience in the system, what the hell did people expect?

As to the comment about Michigan State WR, didn't Plaxico go there?

As to the comment about their draft status, when did draft position become commensurate to production? Since Marques Colston was a 7th rounder should that be the standard for all rookie WR?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

Excellent job with these stats.

To answer the question, "To cut or not to cut," one must ask "why?" regarding production. If Kelly and Thomas are still developing, then you need to keep 'em until after 2010 at least. Many wide receivers don't really develop until their 3rd year, including folks on the list above. It would be a waste not to give them that kind of patience.

Then again, if the problem is with knees that just don't seem to get better - like possibly Kelly - then that is a problem which patience won't fix. The good news here was reported earlier in this thread - that Kelly's knees, for now, are holding up.

[REDSKIN1]

Malcom and Devins development rests squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff. If these guys aren't given more opportunities in games there's no way that they can become effective players in the NFL. At some point the coach Zorn is going to have to realize that in order to improve his team these guys have got to get some significant play time on the field. Take a look around at what the other rookie receives did in the league last year, I'm sure there were growing pains, but the difference is the other teams stuck to their rookies. Here Zorn is to scared to play them because they may make a mistake. Personally I would take either of these guys as the number 2 receiver over Randel EL, and just let them hopefully work out the kinks. If not then we can expect the same results that we had last year on off., double on Moss and no one else open, Campbell sacked...........

[Pocket$ $traight]

Well if they have the same numbers as last year than there is a pretty good chance that Zorn is gone and they will be learning a new system. So all of us need significant production out of them.

I would think that combined they need to produce like a #1 receiver so approximately 1000-1200 yards and 10 tds should be doable.

I would also like Fred Davis to get some balls. He may be the most talented out of the 3.