Would you take Charley Casserly back as GM?

[skinsnut]

I liked Casserly...what we need is beathard and the fountain of youth.
To be honest...almost any ex GM would be better than our current situation...unless of course, one of our 2nd rounders from last year suddenly makes the pro-bowl this year....pa-leeze!

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I liked Casserly...what we need is beathard and the fountain of youth.
To be honest...almost any ex GM would be better than our current situation...unless of course, one of our 2nd rounders from last year suddenly makes the pro-bowl this year....pa-leeze!

I always love the "anything is better" argument. They're so...clueless.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I always love the "anything is better" argument. They're so...clueless.

That "argument" doesn't fly with me either.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I liked Casserly...what we need is beathard and the fountain of youth.
To be honest...almost any ex GM would be better than our current situation...unless of course, one of our 2nd rounders from last year suddenly makes the pro-bowl this year....pa-leeze!

So you would be happy if Snyder replaced Vinny with Matt Millen? He fits your criteria as an ex GM. How about Tom Donahoe, Rick Speilman, Ken Herrock, Rich McKay or anyone else reviled by their former fan bases?

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So you would be happy if Snyder replaced Vinny with Matt Millen? He fits your criteria as an ex GM. How about Tom Donahoe, Rick Speilman, Ken Herrock, Rich McKay or anyone else reviled by their former fan bases?

Ok...ok...you (and others) make a good point.
Vinny aint the worst GM...but he is certainly not top tier.

I retract my statement

[SmootSmack]

Wasn't there a whole thread about a month ago about what if Haynesworth is another bust free agent move like Dana Stubblefield? Who was the GM that brought in Stubblefield?....

[70Chip]

Charley Casserly is an exceptionally hard working guy and competent to a fault in terms of day to day operations, dealing with the league, and all those things that have to be done behind the scenes that we don't get to see or judge.

As a talent evaluator, he had some real doozies, though. The drafting of OL Andre Johnson was so bad that even the press was too embarrassed to talk much about what a fiasco it was. And you could go on at length like this. Heath Shuler, Desmond Howard, Micheal Westbrooke, etc. If you look at the list, you say things to yourself like, "Tre Johnson was good -Kenard Lang wasn't bad." But there those are the best of them. Most of his picks went nowhere.

Having said that, he is GREAT on NFL Network. I saw a segment with him the other day and even the other on-screen talent was like "Holy Cow, Look at Charley go!" He was talking about how to manage the Jay Cutler kerfuffle in Denver and it was like he had a seven bullet power point presentation. "First, send a letter to every other team in the league...", and on like that for three solid minutes. It's no wonder that few people laughed when Charley was mentioned as a potential candidate for comissioner.


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[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Charley Casserly is an exceptionally hard working guy and competent to a fault in terms of day to day operations, dealing with the league, and all those things that have to be done behind the scenes that we don't get to see or judge.

As a talent evaluator, he had some real doozies, though. The drafting of OL Andre Johnson was so bad that even the press was too embarrassed to talk much about what a fiasco it was. And you could go on at length like this. Heath Shuler, Desmond Howard, Micheal Westbrooke, etc. If you look at the list, you say things to yourself like, "Tre Johnson was good -Kenard Lang wasn't bad." But there those are the best of them. Most of his picks went nowhere.

Having said that, he is GREAT on NFL Network. I saw a segment with him the other day and even the other on-screen talent was like "Holy Cow, Look at Charley go!" He was talking about how to manage the Jay Cutler kerfuffle in Denver and it was like he had a seven bullet power point presentation. "First, send a letter to every other team in the league...", and on like that for three solid minutes. It's no wonder that few people laughed when Charley was mentioned as a potential candidate for comissioner.


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Casserly did have some really rough drafts & they were at a time when the franchise REALLY needed them to be fruitful. As a talent evaluator I don't know that he's any better than Vinny. But as a guy who pulled off good trades & had a sense of value w/draft picks, I think he's shown quite a good track record. Plus, he looks pretty good now w/the Mario Williams pick & the building of Houston that he did.

Don't be too hard on him for some of those picks, e.g. D. Howard. As Casserly said himself, there was no GM out there that didn't think Howard was a great prospect. WRs are a boom/bust pick.

And w/Westbrook, I put that one on Turner. I know Casserly was GM, but the word was that Turner really wanted him. I'm still pissed that they passed on Warren Sapp that year & then went on to sign stubby & Big Daddy a couple years afterward.

Heath Shuler? That guy looked like a star on the rise when he started here, but he could never make it happen. I can't fault CC or Norvelle for picking him, he seemed to have it all. His early years he was much like D. McNabb, but obviously his game never evolved.

[SFREDSKIN]

I'd take him in a heartbeat. Many people criticize him (including myself) for picking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush as the 1st overall pick, it seems that he made the right choice. Charley is a sharp GM and would be night and day over VC.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Casserly did have some really rough drafts & they were at a time when the franchise REALLY needed them to be fruitful. As a talent evaluator I don't know that he's any better than Vinny. But as a guy who pulled off good trades & had a sense of value w/draft picks, I think he's shown quite a good track record. Plus, he looks pretty good now w/the Mario Williams pick & the building of Houston that he did.

Don't be too hard on him for some of those picks, e.g. D. Howard. As Casserly said himself, there was no GM out there that didn't think Howard was a great prospect. WRs are a boom/bust pick.

And w/Westbrook, I put that one on Turner. I know Casserly was GM, but the word was that Turner really wanted him. I'm still pissed that they passed on Warren Sapp that year & then went on to sign stubby & Big Daddy a couple years afterward.

Heath Shuler? That guy looked like a star on the rise when he started here, but he could never make it happen. I can't fault CC or Norvelle for picking him, he seemed to have it all. His early years he was much like D. McNabb, but obviously his game never evolved.

Funny how CC gets a pass on so much and Vinny gets nada.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Wasn't there a whole thread about a month ago about what if Haynesworth is another bust free agent move like Dana Stubblefield? Who was the GM that brought in Stubblefield?....

Kinda hard to see that coming. Casserly is a smart guy, but his better work is done what he's doing now though.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Kinda hard to see that coming. Casserly is a smart guy, but his better work is done what he's doing now though.

Sure...but apparently everyone here saw Taylor's injury coming, or Patten blowing out his knee. Just saying, we talk about Stubblefield being a bust all the time here, but we never attach Casserly to it. Had Cerrato been the one to bring him, I don't know that we'd be as forgiving.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Sure...but apparently everyone here saw Taylor's injury coming, or Patten blowing out his knee. Just saying, we talk about Stubblefield being a bust all the time here, but we never attach Casserly to it. Had Cerrato been the one to bring him, I don't know that we'd be as forgiving.

Seeing the injury coming is unrealistic, but when you are trying to drill out compensation for a 1-2 year rental of a former Defensive POY, Cerrato has to be able to use the age and threat of injury to drive down the price of that compensation. Paying a third round pick for Taylor would have been significantly less offensive than a second, and while Parcells might have held out for a better offer, he would have absoultely taken a third than get nothing at all.

Vinny lost track of relative value where Casserly stayed aware (he had the presence to let Sean Gilbert walk under the franchise tag, and collect the picks), and simply missed on a player who he could sign without compensation. I'm not excusing trying to build a defensive line around Stubblefield and Big Daddy Wilkenson, but I'm saying his methodology for doing so was strong.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Seeing the injury coming is unrealistic, but when you are trying to drill out compensation for a 1-2 year rental of a former Defensive POY, Cerrato has to be able to use the age and threat of injury to drive down the price of that compensation. Paying a third round pick for Taylor would have been significantly less offensive than a second, and while Parcells might have held out for a better offer, he would have absoultely taken a third than get nothing at all.

Vinny lost track of relative value where Casserly stayed aware (he had the presence to let Sean Gilbert walk under the franchise tag, and collect the picks), and simply missed on a player who he could sign without compensation. I'm not excusing trying to build a defensive line around Stubblefield and Big Daddy Wilkenson, but I'm saying his methodology for doing so was strong.

Agreed in principle. One caveat...our team under Snyder, and this is my only major philosophical qualm with him in general, is that we overpay. We overpay financially far too often and we overpay with draft picks. Both with Cerrato calling the shots and not. It seems to be more of a fault of Snyder's than anything else. He sets the tone. Who is Cerrato, or Gibbs, or whoever to tell their owner/boss "Nah we won't pay that even though you are willing?"

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Wasn't there a whole thread about a month ago about what if Haynesworth is another bust free agent move like Dana Stubblefield? Who was the GM that brought in Stubblefield?....

If I read the summary of Cerrato's interview with Doc correctly, I guess he said that when he was in San Fran (Vinny is required by law to mention either SF or ND in all pressers) they knew Stubblefield was just looking to get paid.

Cerrato was in SF when Stubby was starting to “blow up” so they were trying get rid of him and trade him somewhere. Their play was to get picks to trade up in the draft to the 22nd spot with Jacksonville to draft Reynaldo Wynn. Funny how things work out. Anyway, Cerrato was very familiar with Stubby and knew he only wanted to get paid.

Thank You BHA, if I may call you that.