What has Obama done well?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So Moore being involved invalidates the article? What about Krugman and Gergen?

I think his point was that, if you happen to be Rolling Stone, choosing to venture into the realm of politics is certainly a curious decision. Having Michael Moore in a roundtable just implies an agenda.

If this was Time, he'd probably just throw a quick one-liner at it and move on to real issues. You know, sort of the way I view Thomas (Rolling Stone) v. Kelly (Time).

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think his point was that, if you happen to be Rolling Stone, choosing to venture into the realm of politics is certainly a curious decision. Having Michael Moore in a roundtable just implies an agenda.

If this was Time, he'd probably just throw a quick one-liner at it and move on to real issues. You know, sort of the way I view Thomas (Rolling Stone) v. Kelly (Time).

I'm guessing you don't read RS often.

They regularly have political articles.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So Moore being involved invalidates the article? What about Krugman and Gergen?

I didn't say it invalidates the article, but having a Rolling Stone roundtable with Michael Moore doesn't exactly scream non-partisan or balanced.

As for Krugman? Come on. The guy is a raging liberal. His NY Times blog is called "The Conscience of a Liberal," and he wrote a book with same title.

Gergen has advised both Dems and Republicans and considers himself independent. He's the closest of the three to non-partisan.

An article in a super-liberal publication with two uber-democrats and one independent. It's not totally invalid, but forgive me if I read it with a massive grain of salt.

[redskinjim]

yes doom despair and agony on me ! lets talk football the game is afoot

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I could care less about who's on the panel, what do you not agree with as far as the points made in the article?

Well obviously I disagree with the grades given to each topic despite the facts laid out, thus the reason I bring up the panelists handing out said grades.

For example, he gets an A- on the environment, yet the article points out:

He "Supported $3.4 billion in stimulus spending for pie-in-the-sky research into carbon capture and sequestration."

Also, "Obama seems to buy the myth of 'clean coal,' and the EPA has rubber-stamped 42 permits for mountaintop-removal mining. This form of mining is devastating Appalachia," says Robert F. Kennedy Jr. "And Obama is letting it happen."

Obama also "endorsed House bill that betrays campaign promise by giving away carbon-pollution permits. Failed to persuade China and India to commit to global plan to cut greenhouse emissions in half by 2050. Approved logging in Tongass National Forest."

Okay. Pretty glaring bad stuff there. Sure he's done some good to go with the bad, but this report card looks more like a "C" to me, not an A-.

[GMScud]

But yes, the article did make some good points and lay out some good facts. I simply don't agree with the grades, and I directly attribute that to the panel.

[MTK]

Grades could be a little more objective I agree, but still, he's done his share of good things so far, probably more than what some people realize or are willing to give him credit for.

[KLHJ2]

As I sit here typing away in my underwear I realize that people have nothing better to do than to bitch about something. Well, I am an independant and have no preference toward either party or cause. I will tell you this. Obama has taken more action on more issues than any other president this century. Whether you think it is right or wrong makes no difference. He said that he was going to make chande and so far he has. No matter what youu may think, his changes have been with the intent of making things better and not worse. For once we have a President that has the nuts to stand up and do what he believes is right. All we want to do is bash him.

Stop being pissed that your party lost and try to realize that he wants what is best for the majority. If you have to give up starbucks and 8 cyllinder engines so that those less fortunate can have health care, then so be it. Heaven fobid that a cup of coffee and a sports car are more important than anothers life.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Angry

. For once we have a President that has the nuts to stand up and do what he believes is right. All we want to do is bash him.

If you have to give up starbucks and 8 cyllinder engines so that those less fortunate can have health care, then so be it. Heaven fobid that a cup of coffee and a sports car are more important than anothers life.

thats bullcrap. bush thought going into iraq was the right thing to do. we were attacked on american soil, i would say bush had a huge set of balls for actually fighting back instead of just standing pat and saying to the american people "we prolly deserved that, lets appoligize for the way we've been living and maybe the terrorists will leave us alone". thats what obama and all the lefties would want to do. bush fought back and to this day he still gets bashed for it.


and thanks for telling me how to spend my money. you want me to pay for another's health care to "save a life" but your prolly for abortion.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

thats bullcrap. bush thought going into iraq was the right thing to do. we were attacked on american soil, i would say bush had a huge set of balls for actually fighting back instead of just standing pat and saying to the american people "we prolly deserved that, lets appoligize for the way we've been living and maybe the terrorists will leave us alone". thats what obama and all the lefties would want to do. bush fought back and to this day he still gets bashed for it.


and thanks for telling me how to spend my money. you want me to pay for another's health care to "save a life" but your prolly for abortion.

i know personally i would have alot more respect for the past administration if they would have went after the actual perpetrators of the attack. how they bamboozled the American public about invading Iraq is beyond me

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

thats bullcrap. bush thought going into iraq was the right thing to do. we were attacked on american soil, i would say bush had a huge set of balls for actually fighting back instead of just standing pat and saying to the american people "we prolly deserved that, lets appoligize for the way we've been living and maybe the terrorists will leave us alone". thats what obama and all the lefties would want to do. bush fought back and to this day he still gets bashed for it.


and thanks for telling me how to spend my money. you want me to pay for another's health care to "save a life" but your prolly for abortion.

1. Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on American soil. You cannot fight a war against terrorists on a typical battlefield. The terrorists that attacked the U.S. were sent by a man hiding in Afghanistan. But you are right, Bush had the balls to persuade less intelligent people like you that going into Iraq was what we needed to do. Now before you start questioning my patriotism, realize that I was there. I could argue on and on about the war, but I would rather point out that you’re a hypocrite.

2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs? You are telling me that I cannot tell you not to drive a V-8 because it is bad for the environment, but you can tell Iran not to make missiles because they are bad for the environment. That's awesome! Who told America that we couldn't make our nuclear missiles and build our nuclear sub marines and power plants? We tell them because we understand the devastation that may come of them just like I understand the devastation by you driving your V-8. So come on Wolfeskis, please don’t drive a V-8 or I will sanction you and plan air strikes against your garage.

3. You say that I want money for healthcare and I am for abortion. Let’s get one thing straight. I am for healthcare, but nobody is for abortion! There are just people out there that realize that there are circumstances that exist in which abortion is the lesser of 2 evils. If a woman is raped and she does not want to keep a child...I understand. If the mother has 50% chance of survival and the child has zero...I understand. You guys have to stop thinking in terms of it's this way or that way, and realize the grey areas out there.

4. Only you can prevent narrow mindedness. Do you really think that by adopting universal healthcare that we would actually allow a person into their 90's to just die? We as a society would not allow this. You guys bitch about how much money Obama is spending and how much is coming out of your pocket and you truly believe that the government is just going to take your money let grandma die? That's good old Republican cynicism at its best. Nothing like some good ole hell and damnation preaching! Grandma is going to be OK, so are your son, your father and anyone else. The good news is that there are also going to be people that never had healthcare before that are going to be OK as well.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Angry

1. Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on American soil. You cannot fight a war against terrorists on a typical battlefield. The terrorists that attacked the U.S. were sent by a man hiding in Afghanistan. But you are right, Bush had the balls to persuade less intelligent people like you that going into Iraq was what we needed to do. Now before you start questioning my patriotism, realize that I was there. I could argue on and on about the war, but I would rather point out that you’re a hypocrite.

2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs? You are telling me that I cannot tell you not to drive a V-8 because it is bad for the environment, but you can tell Iran not to make missiles because they are bad for the environment. That's awesome! Who told America that we couldn't make our nuclear missiles and build our nuclear sub marines and power plants? We tell them because we understand the devastation that may come of them just like I understand the devastation by you driving your V-8. So come on Wolfeskis, please don’t drive a V-8 or I will sanction you and plan air strikes against your garage.

3. You say that I want money for healthcare and I am for abortion. Let’s get one thing straight. I am for healthcare, but nobody is for abortion! There are just people out there that realize that there are circumstances that exist in which abortion is the lesser of 2 evils. If a woman is raped and she does not want to keep a child...I understand. If the mother has 50% chance of survival and the child has zero...I understand. You guys have to stop thinking in terms of it's this way or that way, and realize the grey areas out there.

4. Only you can prevent narrow mindedness. Do you really think that by adopting universal healthcare that we would actually allow a person into their 90's to just die? We as a society would not allow this. You guys bitch about how much money Obama is spending and how much is coming out of your pocket and you truly believe that the government is just going to take your money let grandma die? That's good old Republican cynicism at its best. Nothing like some good ole hell and damnation preaching! Grandma is going to be OK, so are your son, your father and anyone else. The good news is that there are also going to be people that never had healthcare before that are going to be OK as well.

There are over 1,200,000 abortions a year in the US and about 2% of them are done to save the life of the mother or rap. Thats an old argument and most people would agree that those are a different case. I'm not against abortion because I feel it a nessary evil but I'm against tax payer funded abortions.This comes from a person who had a friend die after giving birth.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by firstdown

There are over 1,200,000 abortions a year in the US and about 2% of them are done to save the life of the mother or rap. Thats an old argument and most people would agree that those are a different case. I'm not against abortion because I feel it a nessary evil but I'm against tax payer funded abortions.This comes from a person who had a friend die after giving birth.

The rap game is killing kids?

[Trample the Elderly]

2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs? You are telling me that I cannot tell you not to drive a V-8 because it is bad for the environment, but you can tell Iran not to make missiles because they are bad for the environment. That's awesome! Who told America that we couldn't make our nuclear missiles and build our nuclear sub marines and power plants? We tell them because we understand the devastation that may come of them just like I understand the devastation by you driving your V-8. So come on Wolfeskis, please don’t drive a V-8 or I will sanction you and plan air strikes against your garage.

This is what I've been saying for awhile. The Federal Government should leave people alone, at home and abroad.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

This is what I've been saying for awhile. The Federal Government should leave people alone, at home and abroad.

Is it possible to have a functional government that doesn't act in it's own best interests?

It's a pretty deep question when you think about it. We could have a totally isolationist foreign policy, no UN, no NATO, etc, but when situations arise where it's COMPLETELY obvious that's the correct move is to meddle in the business of others, do you stay true to isolationist ideals?

If not, where is the line drawn?