What's wrong with our Red Zone offense?

[Trample the Elderly]

Teams stop us from scoring. It is as simple as that. Whether it's talent, mental toughness, play-calling, we'll never know. We're not on the sideline and don't know what's going on within the orginization. I know that we deal in a lot of speculation on the board sometimes but I'm pissed that we're not scoring.

People ask why JR doesn't win races. I say it's simple, it's JR. Does he have a coke problem? Would he rather be fishing? What's the price of rice in China?

I don't know, don't care, couldn't give a eff. Put up or shut up! This isn't aimed at any poster on the board. This is just where I'm at as a fan. I'm not the only one either.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I wanted to start this thread so we could discuss the Skins' Red Zone offense and only the Skins' Red Zone offense because I think that's our primary problem right now.

I'm a fan but I'm no football expert, so I'm hoping that some of the experts here can illuminate what's really going wrong for us in the Red Zone and how it can be fixed.

Would anyone like to take the first shot at it?

Many have already brought this up....Simplify.

-Often the most boring playcall is the most effective, B-gap ISO between Samuels & Dock. It's pretty easy to call a formation that makes the D give you the look you want. If they cheat to that gap, they've left the strong-side open, take it. You have a 280lb. Pro Bowl FB, let him clear the way. Folks see this once or twice and you've got a nice play-action set up.

- I don't think a Power back would've made any difference. Zone Blocking should not be called on the GL IMO. It requires a lateral step rather than "firing out". The D is bringing it down there and taking a lateral step will often cause the OL to get pushed into the backfield. On the last 4th down play this is exactly what happened to Dock. If you let Samuels & Dock fire out, they'll get a push, or at worst a stalemate, 9 times out of 10.

- Fade??? Why isn't it being called. In training camp I watched at least a 15 minute period where they ran nothing but fades. You're paying these big WRs to make plays, give them the shot. If they don't get it done, at least you know you need to find other WRs.

- QB sneak, if the C & Gs can't get a 1/2 yd, you don't deserve to win.

- Playcalling sequence. Play-action has to come on first down,or short yardage.

- Kelly & DT or Mitchell need to be on the outside in any GL package. The threat of a fade spreads the D, even if just a little and creates extra space.

- I don't know if Zorn allows JC to audible in the +10 or JC's just not doing it. Whatever the case, JC must have the ability to audible down there, and must do it.

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Many have already brought this up....Simplify.

-Often the most boring playcall is the most effective, B-gap ISO between Samuels & Dock. It's pretty easy to call a formation that makes the D give you the look you want. If they cheat to that gap, they've left the strong-side open, take it. You have a 280lb. Pro Bowl FB, let him clear the way. Folks see this once or twice and you've got a nice play-action set up.

- I don't think a Power back would've made any difference. Zone Blocking should not be called on the GL IMO. It requires a lateral step rather than "firing out". The D is bringing it down there and taking a lateral step will often cause the OL to get pushed into the backfield. On the last 4th down play this is exactly what happened to Dock. If you let Samuels & Dock fire out, they'll get a push, or at worst a stalemate, 9 times out of 10.

- Fade??? Why isn't it being called. In training camp I watched at least a 15 minute period where they ran nothing but fades. You're paying these big WRs to make plays, give them the shot. If they don't get it done, at least you know you need to find other WRs.

- QB sneak, if the C & Gs can't get a 1/2 yd, you don't deserve to win.

- Playcalling sequence. Play-action has to come on first down,or short yardage.

- Kelly & DT or Mitchell need to be on the outside in any GL package. The threat of a fade spreads the D, even if just a little and creates extra space.

- I don't know if Zorn allows JC to audible in the +10 or JC's just not doing it. Whatever the case, JC must have the ability to audible down there, and must do it.

Great post!

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I don't think a Power back would've made any difference.

Maybe not, if Zorn continues to run the wrong type of plays, but what if Zorn were to run better plays and we had a big back? It would have to help us.

I just don't understand why we have four RB's with basically the same skill set, none of whom is a short yardage maven. I'm convinced that we need a big back and better play-calling in the Red Zone.

Wouldn't be nice to see a big back on our team run somebody over at the goal line? Touchdown, Washington Redskins!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Maybe not, if Zorn continues to run the wrong type of plays, but what if Zorn were to run better plays and we had a big back? It would have to help us.

I just don't understand why we have four RB's with basically the same skill set, none of whom is a short yardage maven. I'm convinced that we need a big back and better play-calling in the Red Zone.

Wouldn't be nice to see a big back on our team run somebody over at the goal line? Touchdown, Washington Redskins!

Agree with having a big Power back on the roster, absolutely.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Agree with having a big Power back on the roster, absolutely.

Put the 100 million dollar man in the backfield. That would freak some teams out.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Put the 100 million dollar man in the backfield. That would freak some teams out.

Yes! Fridge, the Sequel.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Agree with having a big Power back on the roster, absolutely.

How much bigger then Sellers must they be? If he's not the proto typical power running back then how much bigger must they be? AH's size? I'm not calling you out but I think the team could find a way to utilize their talents better. To only use Seller for blocking and catching passes out of the back field is rediculous.

Power back: Seller
Regular back: Portis
Speed back: I still think we should have let Rock go especially since Thomas is doing the same job just as well and kept Dorsey or Alridge. With no threat to take the ball outside the tackles teams are loading up on us.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

How much bigger then Sellers must they be? If he's not the proto typical power running back then how much bigger must they be? AH's size? I'm not calling you out but I think the team could find a way to utilize their talents better. To only use Seller for blocking and catching passes out of the back field is rediculous.

Power back: Seller
Regular back: Portis
Speed back: I still think we should have let Rock go especially since Thomas is doing the same job just as well and kept Dorsey or Alridge. With no threat to take the ball outside the tackles teams are loading up on us.

Sellers isn't a ball carrier, see last year's goalline fumble. There's a reason teams have guys like Sellers and Lorenzo Neal at FB, but rarely let them carry the ball.

I wouldn't have minded letting Rock go and working with Dorsey or Aldridge, but ball security was an issue with one, I think injury with the other. To your point though, it would be nice to have a complimentary speed back.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Maybe not, if Zorn continues to run the wrong type of plays, but what if Zorn were to run better plays and we had a big back? It would have to help us.

I just don't understand why we have four RB's with basically the same skill set, none of whom is a short yardage maven. I'm convinced that we need a big back and better play-calling in the Red Zone.

Wouldn't be nice to see a big back on our team run somebody over at the goal line? Touchdown, Washington Redskins!

We can trade for TJ Duckett!

[freddyg12]

almost seems like Zorn was trying to get CP involved at all cost. How many games have you ever seen in which the team is in the red zone 4 times w/no TDs yet you can't blame the QB? (rationally, anyway)

Not just the option call, but in general, give JC a chance to get it in the end zone. Throwing on 1st down was a big part of the drives, keep it up in the r. zone. Even the most powerful running teams can't power it in w/a 2 TE set from 7 to 8 yrds. out.

Of course, Sellers & Dt could've made those plays. And if Orakpo didn't get that p. foul call, we might've taken it in for 6 & changed the game to a blowout.

[BrunellMVP?]

poor execution, lack of creativity, a coach that is scared of turnovers, a QB that is terrified to make his coaches' turnover nightmare's come true, a lack of a dominant line, etc.

[wilsowilso]

My short list of red zone things we never try:

1. QB roll out.

2. Quick Slant where the receiver catches the ball right at the goaline.

3. Any patterns where the receivers route ends at the BACK OF THE GOAL LINE!(this is the most telling one IMO it's a very effective play that we see happen all over the league on Sundays. Either you find the man or the ball goes out the other side end of story it's low risk and very hard to defend when done right. We never never never try it)

4. THE FADE!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Lotus

If Sellers could catch the damn ball, Zorn looks like a much better play caller.

Sellers or Thomas

but still, I have heard of this thing called a "Fade Route". I am unsure it is known in these parts.... but I hear tell of its success on other fields.

[SBXVII]

I think the answer keeps hitting us in the face. When the Giants played us they kept all their defensive lineman and LB lined up between the tackles prior to ball snap. When we played the Rams they did the same thing. Why? cause everyone knows 90% of our runs go between the tackles. All they have to do is load up the middle and stuff the lanes. When the Giants played against Dallas they only kept 3 D-lineman between the tackles. They usually had one DE at each tackle position and one DL floating between them lining up. I believe it was to contain the outside run, but due to this Dallas ran all day up the middle even walked in for a TD. Even Romo ran one up the middle.

Zorn either figures out a way to stretch the other teams defense out or we will see more games like these last two. Hell put 4 WR's in spread them out and run the ball. Even it it's a QB run.