Our next coach??

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

My question is, why do we have to settle for mediocrity with coaches that have one SB win in 14 years or another who won with Elway or Billick who had a great D assembled by Ozzie Newsome. I don't want Jack Pardee type coaches coaching this team, I want a young unknown coach like when Gibbs was hired who will be a winner. Is it this bad being a Redskins fans that mediocrity is what we clamor for?

the problem is, what you want is EXACTLY what Snyder did with Zorn. How's that worked out for us?

[SmootSmack]

I don't have a huge problem with Shanahan as the head coach. He's very creative and a good offensive mind. Though for all his genius, I would have expected more dominance in the AFC West from him.

But he tends to rotate defensive coaches with relative ease, which ruins continuity on that side. And he's made some very poor personnel decisions both through the draft and free agency-Clarett, Willie Middlebrooks, Courtney Brown, Dale Carter, Quentin Griffin, Leon Lett, Eddie Kennison and so on.

It's easy to sit here and say that Cerrato is the worst personnel man in the league, but upon closer inspection it's hard to say that replacing him Shanahan is a marked improvement.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't have a huge problem with Shanahan as the head coach. He's very creative and a good offensive mind. Though for all his genius, I would have expected more dominance in the AFC West from him.

But he tends to rotate defensive coaches with relative ease, which ruins continuity on that side. And he's made some very poor personnel decisions both through the draft and free agency-Clarett, Willie Middlebrooks, Courtney Brown, Dale Carter, Quentin Griffin, Leon Lett, Eddie Kennison and so on.

It's easy to sit here and say that Cerrato is the worst personnel man in the league, but upon closer inspection it's hard to say that replacing him Shanahan is a marked improvement.

It's a little scary to think what he would do with Snyder's checkbook. I mean he really made his share of questionable personnel decisions in Denver. For as much heat as the Skins would get for making iffy moves, it always seemed as if Shanahan was trying to outdo us in the wacky moves dept.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't have a huge problem with Shanahan as the head coach. He's very creative and a good offensive mind. Though for all his genius, I would have expected more dominance in the AFC West from him.

But he tends to rotate defensive coaches with relative ease, which ruins continuity on that side. And he's made some very poor personnel decisions both through the draft and free agency-Clarett, Willie Middlebrooks, Courtney Brown, Dale Carter, Quentin Griffin, Leon Lett, Eddie Kennison and so on.

It's easy to sit here and say that Cerrato is the worst personnel man in the league, but upon closer inspection it's hard to say that replacing him Shanahan is a marked improvement.

If you're just talking about improvement in talent evaluation/personnel decisioning skills, then i'd agree with you. I'd even argue that Cerrato is better. However, the problem with Cerrato is that he is essentially a puppet to Snyder and allows Snyder to be involved in the decision-making process. Due to their friendship, that will never change. Cerrato will never tell Snyder no. The same won't be true with someone from the outside.

While Shanahan is not my first choice, if I had to chose between him and Cerrato, i'd chose Shanahan, if for no other reason that it would eliminate Snyder from the equation (other than signing checks of course).

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If you're just talking about improvement in talent evaluation/personnel decisioning skills, then i'd agree with you. I'd even argue that Cerrato is better. However, the problem with Cerrato is that he is essentially a puppet to Snyder and allows Snyder to be involved in the decision-making process. Due to their friendship, that will never change. Cerrato will never tell Snyder no. The same won't be true with someone from the outside.

While Shanahan is not my first choice, if I had to chose between him and Cerrato, i'd chose Cerrato, if for no other reason that it would eliminate Snyder from the equation (other than signing checks of course).

Did you mean to say you'd choose Shanahan. Either way, I don't think even Shanahan is going to significantly change Snyder's input. I mean it's not like Snyder stepped in when Cerrato decided he couldn't work with Williams or Fassel or when Cerrato said I'm bringing in Sherman Lewis.

Cerrato needs to go more than anything to give the perception that changes are being made.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Did you mean to say you'd choose Shanahan. Either way, I don't think even Shanahan is going to significantly change Snyder's input. I mean it's not like Snyder stepped in when Cerrato decided he couldn't work with Williams or Fassel or when Cerrato said I'm bringing in Sherman Lewis.

Cerrato needs to go more than anything to give the perception that changes are being made.

Yeah i did, thanks for pointing that out - i guess i'm not very good at multi-tasking...

I agree that perception is a big issue here - what fans want is a Head Coach and GM (whether one person or two) who are "bigger" than Snyder. Frankly, the fans need to feel that the franchise is being run by someone who a) demands immediate respect and b) knows what theyre doing.

Regarding Snyder, I think his involvement mainly relates to offseason player acquisition issues. I think Haynesworth was a great addition to the team, and his impact has been significant, but I don't beleive that Snyder didn't have any input there. I also would be shocked to learn if Snyder wasn't the primary force in pushing to acquire Cutler and Sanchez in the offseason. And do you really think the current playcalling situation is all of Cerrato's devising? Cerrato may have been the one to suggest Sherm specifically, but I fully beleive that he was brought in in an attempt to get Zorn to quit (after Snyders attempts to lure Shanahan [and possibly Gruden and others as well] had failed. A neutral GM wouldnt give a crap about trying to save the owner money by trying to force a coach to resign instead of being terminated (with pay).

I honestly think Cerrato would be fairly good at his job somewhere else - he just either doesnt have the balls or authority to tell snyder to stay out of his way here. I seriously doubt that anyone from the outside (who doesnt play racquetball or go on skiing vacations with the owner would have the same reservations.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Yeah i did, thanks for pointing that out - i guess i'm not very good at multi-tasking...

I agree that perception is a big issue here - what fans want is a Head Coach and GM (whether one person or two) who are "bigger" than Snyder. Frankly, the fans need to feel that the franchise is being run by someone who a) demands immediate respect and b) knows what theyre doing.

Regarding Snyder, I think his involvement mainly relates to offseason player acquisition issues. I think Haynesworth was a great addition to the team, and his impact has been significant, but I don't beleive that Snyder didn't have any input there. I also would be shocked to learn if Snyder wasn't the primary force in pushing to acquire Cutler and Sanchez in the offseason. And do you really think the current playcalling situation is all of Cerrato's devising? Cerrato may have been the one to suggest Sherm specifically, but I fully beleive that he was brought in in an attempt to get Zorn to quit (after Snyders attempts to lure Shanahan [and possibly Gruden and others as well] had failed. A neutral GM wouldnt give a crap about trying to save the owner money by trying to force a coach to resign instead of being terminated (with pay).

I honestly think Cerrato would be fairly good at his job somewhere else - he just either doesnt have the balls or authority to tell snyder to stay out of his way here. I seriously doubt that anyone from the outside (who doesnt play racquetball or go on skiing vacations with the owner would have the same reservations.

I see your point overall, but it's the owner's team. Better said, it's the owner's business. There really can't be any such thing as a neutral GM. It's the owner's money he's playing with and it's the owner he reports to. No General Manager is going to act without input, sometimes significant input from the owner (or owners). It's like any business. It's the case throughout the league. Some owners may not be as in the public eye as Snyder so it may not appear to be that way, but that's how it is. As I've said before, the only owner I've ever heard that's really entirely hands off is Paul Allen. But even he steps in when it comes to organizational changes.

[Beemnseven]

We hear a lot about how bad Mike Shanahan's personnel decsions were. And certainly, he whiffed on quite a few. But sometimes I feel like people tend to overstate those mistakes a bit.

When you look at his last few seasons with the Broncos, he went downhill slightly with records of 9-7, 7-9, and 8-8 in '06, '07, and '08 respectively. Only two of his 14 years in Denver finished with losing records. This year's Broncos are essentially his team, and while they've fallen off the past few weeks, they started out 6-0. So they aren't exactly chopped liver.

With Shanahan in charge of personnel, the worst you can honestly say is that his team started to drift into mediocrity. It's not like he left the organization in the sh*t wagon.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

We hear a lot about how bad Mike Shanahan's personnel decsions were. And certainly, he whiffed on quite a few. But sometimes I feel like people tend to overstate those mistakes a bit.

When you look at his last few seasons with the Broncos, he went downhill slightly with records of 9-7, 7-9, and 8-8 in '06, '07, and '08 respectively. Only two of his 14 years in Denver finished with losing records. This year's Broncos are essentially his team, and while they've fallen off the past few weeks, they started out 6-0. So they aren't exactly chopped liver.

With Shanahan in charge of personnel, the worst you can honestly say is that his team started to drift into mediocrity. It's not like he left the organization in the sh*t wagon.

Probably about as overstated as the Redskins draft mistakes.

[Beemnseven]

Well, we are on the ugly side of .500 for the past ten years with the draft choices we have made.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Well, we are on the ugly side of .500 for the past ten years with the draft choices we have made.

And a .500 record over his last 3 seasons is what got Shanahan fired.

The more I think about Shanahan running things the less I like the idea. I just think we could be in for more of the same like we have with Vinny.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And a .500 record over his last 3 seasons is what got Shanahan fired.

The more I think about Shanahan running things the less I like the idea. I just think we could be in for more of the same like we have with Vinny.

i'm getting there, too. I'd rather go with Shanahan than another Zorn-type guy, though.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And a .500 record over his last 3 seasons is what got Shanahan fired.

The more I think about Shanahan running things the less I like the idea. I just think we could be in for more of the same like we have with Vinny.

We'll agree to disagree then. To me, Vinny is as close to Shanahan as a '77 Pinto is to an '09 Lexus.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

We'll agree to disagree then. To me, Vinny is as close to Shanahan as a '77 Pinto is to an '09 Lexus.

Check into Shanahan's draft misses and get back to me. I don't think the difference between the two is as great as you think.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Check into Shanahan's draft misses and get back to me. I don't think the difference between the two is as great as you think.

I agree, plus Shanahan w/his owners support, was into getting big name pricey free agents just like Snyder et al. Denver's payroll has been close to ours in many years this decade.

Plus, pick for pick Vinny isn't bad IMO, especially if the class of 08 continues to improve. It's the broader decisions that bother me, like deciding a west coast O is needed before a coach is hired.