Cut Chris Samuels

[MTK]

We're not over the cap but we're not far under it right now either, and we have a list of guys we need to get signed. A couple million in cap room isn't going to cut it for the entire offseason.

[Schneed10]

I definitely wouldn't pay him what Walter Jones from Seattle got, 7 years 50 million. No way. I'd pay him about what Jansen got, plus a bit for inflation. Like 6 years $30 million.

You definitely overrate him, Celts. He's not one of the best in the game. He hasn't made a Pro Bowl in a few years now. Here's how I'd rate the LTs around the league:
1) Jonathan Ogden
2) Walter Jones
3) Orlando Pace
4) Willie Roaf
5) Tra Thomas
6) Tarik Glenn
7) Flozell Adams
8) Chris Samuels

Flozell Adams got 5 years, $25 million, with a $10 million signing bonus last year. I'd pay Samuels something comparable to that. Don't overrate him, or you'd just end up overpaying him.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I definitely wouldn't pay him what Walter Jones from Seattle got, 7 years 50 million. No way. I'd pay him about what Jansen got, plus a bit for inflation. Like 6 years $30 million.

You definitely overrate him, Celts. He's not one of the best in the game. He hasn't made a Pro Bowl in a few years now. Here's how I'd rate the LTs around the league:
1) Jonathan Ogden
2) Walter Jones
3) Orlando Pace
4) Willie Roaf
5) Tra Thomas
6) Tarik Glenn
7) Flozell Adams
8) Chris Samuels

Flozell Adams got 5 years, $25 million, with a $10 million signing bonus last year. I'd pay Samuels something comparable to that. Don't overrate him, or you'd just end up overpaying him.

I would probably put him maybe 6th or 7th on that list, but you still have him 8th in a 32 team league. That's not to shabby. I would say your top 4 are clearly better and he is in the mix with the other 4 somewhere. Also I think Spurriers pass blocking schemes hurt his production for a couple years. The OL as a whole was completely confused as to what to do with Spurrier as coach. However, I never said he was the best LT in the game I just said he was one of the best your rankings agree with my assessment.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by celts32

I would probably put him maybe 6th or 7th on that list, but you still have him 8th in a 32 team league.

OK fine, make him 6th or 7th on the list. Pay him $36 million over 6 years, which comes out to $6 million a year. But if you're saying he's worth keeping on the roster at the $9 million cap hit he's got this year, then you're overrating him.

Gotta restructure, or cut.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

OK fine, make him 6th or 7th on the list. Pay him $36 million over 6 years, which comes out to $6 million a year. But if you're saying he's worth keeping on the roster at the $9 million cap hit he's got this year, then you're overrating him.

Gotta restructure, or cut.

I never said the contract was good for our cap. I said that he is to important to the team to cut so we need to bite the bullet and keep him.

I believe his cap figure is 9 million becasue of past restructurings that have made the contract appear worse than it was when it was signed. My point is that from a football standpoint we need this guy on the team. I am not excited about the prospect of going into next season hoping one of last years late round draft picks can play LT.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I never said we should keep him at $9 million. I think that we need to re-sign him since:

1. Left tackles don't grow on trees
2. Offensive linemen, already key players, are even more important in Gibbs' offense.
3. Samuels is at least a top 10 tackle.
4. We don't have an adequate backup for Samuels.
5. Samuels will be key in protecting Ramsey
6. There are no "great" offensive linemen in the draft that I'd trust to anchor the left side of the line.
7. There are no good tackles on the free agent market.

Re-signing him to a deal comparable to Ryan Diem's would be fair, what the market dictates, probably acceptable to Samuels, and would alleviate a ton of our cap problems while retaining a key player.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I never said we should keep him at $9 million. I think that we need to re-sign him since:

1. Left tackles don't grow on trees
2. Offensive linemen, already key players, are even more important in Gibbs' offense.
3. Samuels is at least a top 10 tackle.
4. We don't have an adequate backup for Samuels.
5. Samuels will be key in protecting Ramsey
6. There are no "great" offensive linemen in the draft that I'd trust to anchor the left side of the line.
7. There are no good tackles on the free agent market.

Re-signing him to a deal comparable to Ryan Diem's would be fair, what the market dictates, probably acceptable to Samuels, and would alleviate a ton of our cap problems while retaining a key player.

Some sanity at last. It's crazy to think that we can just plug anyone in at LT. This is not a fantasy football GM looking for a bye week replacement, it's the NFL where LT's are at a premium. If you have a good one you do everything in your power to keep him. Why is it that a top LT never hits the open market? Whenever they are unsigned they get franchised. Whenever a good one is in the draft they go top 5. They are simply to hard to replace and you can not win games without a good one. it's not a position that you can just try and get by with.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Teams generally run right as that is the strong side.

[Schneed10]

Celts, don't misunderstand my stance. I definitely would prefer to keep Samuels, as I stated in the opening post in this thread. Renegotiating his deal would be the perfect solution, I think the Redskins really need him.

But I just don't think he's affordable at $9 million +.

I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to wanting to restructure him. But where we differ is whether or not he's worth the current $9 million cap hit. I think I am also less scared of Molinaro than you are. That's all.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Celts, don't misunderstand my stance. I definitely would prefer to keep Samuels, as I stated in the opening post in this thread. Renegotiating his deal would be the perfect solution, I think the Redskins really need him.

But I just don't think he's affordable at $9 million +.

I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to wanting to restructure him. But where we differ is whether or not he's worth the current $9 million cap hit. I think I am also less scared of Molinaro than you are. That's all.

Schneed, I alwasy understood your stance. I think most of us are on the same page as far as Samuels being a good player and restructuring goes. I just think that Samuels becasue of the position he plays and how well he plays it is simply to valuable to cut and if salary cap becomes an issue i will have to try and squeeze the money out of other areas of the team. That's all I am saying.

[MTK]

Just because Winey filled in and did an admirable job for 1 start doesn't mean he's a better LT than Samuels.

Last time I checked Winey isn't starting anywhere.

[Monksdown]

I agree with you Matty. Please guys, it would be a great deal to lower Samuels salary. But if were to go out and get someone with equal talent, we would be paying 7.5+ a year for him. And Im sorry, maybe Im just out there, but Samuels is about 30% more talented than Jim Molinaro. And can somebody please quote me on that.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

We wouldn't be paying $7.5 million to re-sign Samuels unless we give him a deal like the one given to Jonathan Ogden. I don't think Samuels expects to be paid like Ogden. I do think he expects to be paid like Ryan Diem whose getting something like $6.8 million per year. Also, since the deal would be backloaded, we'd likely only be paying him somewhere around $3.5 million for the first two years.

[Monksdown]

I love back loaded deals. It's genius really; That way, we can pay more later for an older player. I simply love it.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I love back loaded deals. It's genius really; That way, we can pay more later for an older player. I simply love it.

Maybe you are unaware that it's also the industry's MO.
And it's not dumb, players salaries should increase as the cap does. To do otherwise would be idiotic.

That said, I don't think you can backload every players' deal to such an extent that you face cap hell. But doing it with ten or so players is fine.