Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Big C

Why has Matt Leinart sucked so much then? He has the same talent to work with there.

Matt Leinart has only played in 12 games since losing his starting job to Warner because of injury. Most of them were brief spells for an injured Warner or mop up duty. He had a terrible outing in his 1 start, I agree, but he was playing well in the final 2 minutes against the Saints. I wouldn't exactly say that the guy sucks. More like he hasn't been given a shot to redeem himself in Warners shawdow.

His rookie year (Denny Greene's last) he played in 12 games, starting 11 of them and while it was not always perfect he was showing flashes. When Wisenhunt took over the following year he was still the starter except for the 2 minute drill, then he got hurt and it was all downhill from there. It was no secret though that Wisenhunt didn't like Leinart and vice versa. Rothlisberger didn't like Wisenhunt either for what it's worth.

I would like to see him (Leinart) play a full season under center before I stick a fork in him. If he succeeds though, it will mostly be to because of the talent around him also. Then and only then we will see how truly great Warner was. I honestly believe that Leinart can do just as well if not a little better.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

This argument gets old and doesn't hold much water for me. Name any of the greats and I'll show you they had a great supporting cast.

My god look at the season he had in '99: 4353 yards, 41 TDs, 13 INTs, 109.2 QB rating ... Do you really think someone like Trent Dilfer would have put up those type of numbers with the Rams even with that cast?

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

So his 2 years in Giants negate the good years? What do you not like about him, other then he was able to play with good players. Watch Leinart next year and you will see what Warner brought to the team.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

So his 2 years in Giants negate the good years? What do you not like about him, other then he was able to play with good players. Watch Leinart next year and you will see what Warner brought to the team.

It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Angry

It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.

I was never sold on Palmer when he was everyone's 3rd best QB. I did once think Bulger was going to be really good though.

But Manning could be considered in the same camp you put Warner in. He has only played with a strong supporting cast. James, Harrison, Wayne and Clark. There are 2 HOers there. I do admit that Manning is one of the best QB's of all time but he's had a ridiculous supporting cast, better then what most QB’s have worked with.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Angry

It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.

Has Peyton Manning not always had a strong cast? He had Edgerrin James for a while taking pressure off the passing game when he was early in his career. He's had very strong TEs his entire career in Pollard and Clark. And how about Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne? This guy has had stud pass catchers around him since he first put on an NFL helmet. I'm not saying he's not phenomenal, because he is, but he's had some horses in his arsenal as well.

Favre is great, but he's had some studs, too. Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Shannon Sharpe, Donald Driver... Not too shabby.

Brady won some Super Bowls with pretty average receivers, I'll give you that. But his best numbers came with guys like Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

Great QBs are always going to make receivers look better, and vice versa. In Warner's case, I think he was a great QB who made great receivers look even better, and I also think those receivers returned the favor.

He is probably the best QB I've ever seen against the blitz, has a career passer rating of 94 (3rd all time), and has been deadly accurate his whole career. He has 58 career 300 yard games (only Marino has more- 63), which is good for nearly 45% of the games he played in. That's crazy. The next closest QB is Dan Fouts with 28%. In the history of the NFL, only Peyton Manning has thrown for more yards per game. Oh yeah, he also won 2 MVPs.

Sure, Warner has been the beneficiary of some very good offensive talent, but the guy was amazing. I don't know angry, I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it holds much water. When you look some of the all time passing stats, some of the names around him are Montana, Marino, Young, Favre, Manning, Brady, Fouts, Starr... It's not an accident. Warner was pretty awesome.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

All good players except Hakim and Arrington. Look at Boldin, Fitz an Breastons numbers next years and see if they miss Kurt.

Holt and Bruces best numbers came with Warner throwing to them. It will be interesting to see what the Cardinals offense evolves into.

[wolfeskins]

i guess joe montanna wasn't really a great qb because he played most of his career throwing to the greatest wr of all time (rice)

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

i guess joe montanna wasn't really a great qb because he played most of his career throwing to the greatest wr of all time (rice)

He still played at a high level after leaving San Fran without Rice.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Angry

I was never sold on the guy. Give me Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Hakim, to pair with any QB and I will make him great. I will trade him to a less talented team and he will struggle. I will then pair him with Boldin, Fitzgerald, Breaston, and Arrington and watch him revive his career.

Warner was good at getting the ball out of his hands before he got hit, luckily he had some talent on the other end to do something with it. That the way I see it and you cannot change it.

Have to agree with Matty's rebuttal of this quote. Could Manning be any good without Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Gonzalez til he got hurt? Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, and Joe Addai, aren't bums either. Every great QB in the NFL or college had a solid supporting cast. THat is why I am not going "gaga" over the Big 4 QB prospects in this draft. They rocked when their team had a distinct talent advantage over most of their opponents, but got roughed up when the odds were even.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Have to agree with Matty's rebuttal of this quote. Could Manning be any good without Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Gonzalez til he got hurt? Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, and Joe Addai, aren't bums either. Every great QB in the NFL or college had a solid supporting cast. THat is why I am not going "gaga" over the Big 4 QB prospects in this draft. They rocked when their team had a distinct talent advantage over most of their opponents, but got roughed up when the odds were even.

Whenever people talk whos better Manning or Brady thats the one argument for Brady. He never had a really great WR cast around him untill 2007 when Moss and Welker showed up. MAYBE you can make the case for Deion Branch, but hes more of just a big name to me. The best offessive player behind Brady was Adam Vinatieri proir to the arrivial of Moss and Welker. Could Manning have done what Brady did coming into NE?

So i put Warner and Manning in the same camp, except Manning has had more advantages (same team, offense, players, coaches, and everyone believing in him from the start). I think Manning is better but I really believe Warner is a all time great.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Whenever people talk whos better Manning or Brady thats the one argument for Brady. He never had a really great WR cast around him untill 2007 when Moss and Welker showed up. MAYBE you can make the case for Deion Branch, but hes more of just a big name to me. The best offessive player behind Brady was Adam Vinatieri proir to the arrivial of Moss and Welker. Could Manning have done what Brady did coming into NE?

So i put Warner and Manning in the same camp, except Manning has had more advantages (same team, offense, players, coaches, and everyone believing in him from the start). I think Manning is better but I really believe Warner is a all time great.

Interesting argument you got there. Brady did always have that great defense of the Patriots, and I think you have to take that into consideration. I think if Manning wins this SB, I would put him at the same level as Brady. I do agree that back in 2006, Brady had terrible receivers and besides Branch or Vinatieri there were no offensive weapons. But looking at the Colts this year, Manning carried that team on his back with a suspect running game and a decent defense.

As I was typing this, I thought of the following...

Brady went on IR in 2008 and the team went 11-5 with a career back up. What record do you guys think the Colts would be without Manning? Or the Cards without Warner? (well we're about to find the latter one next year)

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Interesting argument you got there. Brady did always have that great defense of the Patriots, and I think you have to take that into consideration. I think if Manning wins this SB, I would put him at the same level as Brady. I do agree that back in 2006, Brady had terrible receivers and besides Branch or Vinatieri there were no offensive weapons. But looking at the Colts this year, Manning carried that team on his back with a suspect running game and a decent defense.

As I was typing this, I thought of the following...

Brady went on IR in 2008 and the team went 11-5 with a career back up. What record do you guys think the Colts would be without Manning? Or the Cards without Warner? (well we're about to find the latter one next year)

There would be no way that they would have all of those 12 win seasons without Manning.

[MTK]

I think the guy is great and definitely HOF worthy. That game he had a few weeks ago where he tore up the Packers was one of the best all time performances I've seen from a QB. He had more TDs than incompletions in that game. Insane.

[over the mountain]

i remember us having the "does warner make the HOF" chat a year or so ago. peple seemed kinda split, i have to think that now after the SB then this last season he has done enough to tip the scales in his favor.

while i did not like the greatest show on turf b/c of the sudden boom in die hard rams fans across america (where did all those starter jackets go?), i respected warner and faulk alot.

have a great life mr. warner, i have a feeling he will be doing kids football camps then transition to the nfl in some capacity.