Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...

[tryfuhl]

1230 yesterday heh

HGH is usually taken in conjunction with other things for performance

[KLHJ2]

I just want to reiterate that I do believe that Moss deserves a suspension if it is handed down. I'm just saying that I do not believe that it was his intent to cheat.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Angry

I just want to reiterate that I do believe that Moss deserves a suspension if it is handed down. I'm just saying that I do not believe that it was his intent to cheat.

But the result is cheating. It has been clinically proven the use of HGH alone with no other additive does provide a 4% increase in running speed. Now if someone is going to say well if you inject this way or that way or snort it....
There has to be a line drawn somewhere. It is illegal to use it and no way to test for it or control the use. It needs to stay illegal.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

But the result is cheating. It has been clinically proven the use of HGH alone with no other additive does provide a 4% increase in running speed. Now if someone is going to say well if you inject this way or that way or snort it....
There has to be a line drawn somewhere. It is illegal to use it and no way to test for it or control the use. It needs to stay illegal.

Let me rephrase, I do not believe that he knew that he was being injected with HGH. Regardless he should still be punished because he is responsible for what goes into his body.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Angry

Let me rephrase, I do not believe that he knew that he was being injected with HGH.

Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?

[redskins121684]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?

He paid for treatment, he flew the doctor in along with the assistant to receive a treatment for an injury. The treatment included HGH therapy in addition to PRP therapy and administration of a drug called activegan, whether or not he was aware of the fact that HGH was part of the regiment he was receiving remains to be seen, but some of the reports that have come out have said this Dr also had mislabeled drugs in his possession so he could have been trying to mislead patients.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?

HGH isn't the only thing that treatment physicians do

that's like asking why does a Saudi Prince come to America for appendicitis

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Ok,then why have a Doctor or his assistant fly in from Canada to give you a shot ?

Why order a case of beer from Germany? Because it's better.

[joethiesmanfan]

No Marlboro Man for the Cowboys season opener is my fear.

[sandtrapjack]

Looking back at all sports, not just football, you'll see that on most occasions, these "illegal performance enhancing" substances were used to expedite healing from an injury. But none-the-less, it is still an illegal drug obtained illegally. No matter what the intended use.

But I cannot endorse any suspension by the league without evidence.

Has Moss failed any league mandated drug tests? Do they have any evidence they he actually received these treatments?

Players who ARE suspended for performance enhancing drugs, like Brian Cushing and Shawne Merriman, were all implicated by POSITIVE drug testing and by league testing rules and procedures already in place.

As far as I know, all they have on Moss is an afadavit. In other words, this guy said he did, but other than that, there is no physical eveidence this ever took place.

So until the league endorses using "word of mouth" as fool proof eveidence of illegal activity, LEAVE MOSS ALONE AND LET THE MAN PLAY FOOTBALL!

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Looking back at all sports, not just football, you'll see that on most occasions, these "illegal performance enhancing" substances were used to expedite healing from an injury. But none-the-less, it is still an illegal drug obtained illegally. No matter what the intended use.

But I cannot endorse any suspension by the league without evidence.

Has Moss failed any league mandated drug tests? Do they have any evidence they he actually received these treatments?

Players who ARE suspended for performance enhancing drugs, like Brian Cushing and Shawne Merriman, were all implicated by POSITIVE drug testing and by league testing rules and procedures already in place.

As far as I know, all they have on Moss is an afadavit. In other words, this guy said he did, but other than that, there is no physical eveidence this ever took place.

So until the league endorses using "word of mouth" as fool proof eveidence of illegal activity, LEAVE MOSS ALONE AND LET THE MAN PLAY FOOTBALL!

I understand your point and it is a legitimate point. But as Ben Roethlisburger is finding out the hard way (LOL!) you do not have to be convicted or have proof positive. It is the illegal or behavior that can get you in trouble. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but there currently is no test for certain substances that are on the banned list. So....

[Daseal]

Sandtrap, I agree. I hate that the NFL can suspend people for 'giving the shield a bad name.' While I don't necessarily need a conviction in a court of law, I do need to see significant evidence before suspending anyone. That goes for everyone, past and present, that has been suspended.

That being said, as far as not knowing about HGH or it 'just helping him heal'. HGH is on the banned substances list for a reason. To say he didn't know is a tough pill to swallow. Everyone knows what this Dr. does. If he was really getting blood spinning done, tons of places that are well known and reputable can do blood spinning. This Dr. is a known provider of HGH and I think Moss took it.

We'll wait to see what comes out before I make a determination one way or another, but I think letting him completely off the hook isn't the right way to go. Would you have that same stance if this was Roy Williams from the Cowboys? Steve Smith from the Giants? DeShawn Jackson of the Eagles? I doubt it, you'd want a 4 game suspension, as long as sufficient evidence can be presented.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I understand your point and it is a legitimate point. But as Ben Roethlisburger is finding out the hard way (LOL!) you do not have to be convicted or have proof positive. It is the illegal or behavior that can get you in trouble. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but there currently is no test for certain substances that are on the banned list. So....

2 totally different situations and circumstances.

Goodell cannot suspend anyone for violating the leagues substance abuse policy without physical evidence.

However, if he feels that this incident gives the NFL a "black-eye", then Goodell would have to find a way to classify this incident as a violation of the leagues "personal conduct policy".

That is what Big Ben was suspended for. And lest we forget, Ben did it twice in consecutive years BEFORE he was suspended.

Big difference between substance abuse and personal conduct policy.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

2 totally different situations and circumstances.

Goodell cannot suspend anyone for violating the leagues substance abuse policy without physical evidence.

However, if he feels that this incident gives the NFL a "black-eye", then Goodell would have to find a way to classify this incident as a violation of the leagues "personal conduct policy".

That is what Big Ben was suspended for. And lest we forget, Ben did it twice in consecutive years BEFORE he was suspended.

Big difference between substance abuse and personal conduct policy.

What it's going to boil down to is proof. Just because a doctor says he was going to visit Moss doesn't mean Moss knew about it or was a part of it. Now if the Feds hold a hearing and put him under oath then I would presume the truth would come out.

Otherwise all you have is opposing teams hiring doctors to get caught and say they were in route to visit said opponents key players. Then watch all the players get suspended for no reason.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Looking back at all sports, not just football, you'll see that on most occasions, these "illegal performance enhancing" substances were used to expedite healing from an injury. But none-the-less, it is still an illegal drug obtained illegally. No matter what the intended use.

But I cannot endorse any suspension by the league without evidence.

Has Moss failed any league mandated drug tests? Do they have any evidence they he actually received these treatments?

Players who ARE suspended for performance enhancing drugs, like Brian Cushing and Shawne Merriman, were all implicated by POSITIVE drug testing and by league testing rules and procedures already in place.

As far as I know, all they have on Moss is an afadavit. In other words, this guy said he did, but other than that, there is no physical eveidence this ever took place.

So until the league endorses using "word of mouth" as fool proof eveidence of illegal activity, LEAVE MOSS ALONE AND LET THE MAN PLAY FOOTBALL!

Until all the evidence is made clear, Moss will remain guilty by speculation since it appears to carry far more weight than guilt by association.