For JTF's Reading Pleasure: "What is the Tea Party"

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Who's JTF?

joetheismanfan, He LOVES the TeaParty!

[CRedskinsRule]

they aren't dire, since politicians are able to print the money and many other factors that keep us from being in Greece or California's situation. And we could turn it around now, if we had the political will, but like Saden said, to do it, you would have to be willing to cut SS/Medicare AND Defense, but there is no way a majority of the House will get voted in with that agenda.

[CRedskinsRule]

the poll would have been more useful if it showed the cumulative effect of an individual's selections, and only allowed votes that made a reduction of a certain amount, I don't know what number that should be.

[joethiesmanfan]

Interesting. It's easy to point at the deficit but it ain't easy to leave countries we have invaded. We are gonna spend a trillion on the wars this year. That's is the first step to stop the defeicit. Bush never counted the wars that's why they can point and say Obama ran up the deficit. The deficit is higher simply because Obama counts the wars toward the deficit and Bush didn't.

We don't have the political will to cut spending.

1. Being the troops home, and that cuts most of the deficit right there. Almost all of it.
2. Foreign aid. Yeah cut it all. Cut that before start trying to cut Americans.

Then we can talk about the rest. 65%of Israeili men do not work and having babies 4 and 5 kids. Bump that. How you gonna occupy a country and can't even feed your own kids? That's dumb, you setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

Deficit solved. "The war is making you poor!!!!"

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Interesting. It's easy to point at the deficit but it ain't easy to leave countries we have invaded. We are gonna spend a trillion on the wars this year. That's is the first step to stop the defeicit. Bush never counted the wars that's why they can point and say Obama ran up the deficit. The deficit is higher simply because Obama counts the wars toward the deficit and Bush didn't.

We don't have the political will to cut spending.

1. Being the troops home, and that cuts most of the deficit right there. Almost all of it.
2. Foreign aid. Yeah cut it all. Cut that before start trying to cut Americans.

Then we can talk about the rest. 65%of Israeili men do not work and having babies 4 and 5 kids. Bump that. How you gonna occupy a country and can't even feed your own kids? That's dumb, you setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

Deficit solved. "The war is making you poor!!!!"

Bush did include some war spending in his budget but its has always been counted against the deficit. Pretty much the same thing that Obama is doing. In the end the deficit is the deficit no matter what the budget was.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Bush did include some war spending in his budget but its has always been counted against the deficit. Pretty much the same thing that Obama is doing. In the end the deficit is the deficit no matter what the budget was.

Deficit is the shortfall of the budget. You budget 1000 and spend 1150. 150 is the deficit. The budget determines the deficit. The crazy part is they hide stuff by not putting it in the budget. If they know they have to spend it then include it in the budget, its intellectually dishonest not to. Of course Bush didn't include the war costs in the budget because then it would be voted on in perspective with everything else. He would wait til Al Quaeda make a tape then have them vote on the war budget alone. Deficit be damned we gonna get Saddam at all costs!!!!

[joethiesmanfan]

If you are being serious about the deficit and national debt then that's the first place you look. That is the biggest expenditure. I mean, according to the Tea Party we are about to fall. I don't agree by the way with rasing the age that much, but what I am doing is just going along with the Tea Party's main argument. We are in debt. What people should realize is the country is not about to fall, the faction that used to rule this country is about to fall. The right wing faction that lives by government careers starting wars but like Rove, Cheney, Fife and all the rest have never ever been in the millitary. That faction is meetin it's destruction. BP, thanks for the oil spill. The ruling coaliton is bleeding everyday in the gulf. Sad we had to trade the gulf for common sense.

[CRedskinsRule]

hmm, i seem to remember the democrats filibustering a lot as well, (and republicans crying about it) bottom line that is a tool of the minority, and both parties know how to use it (to the detriment of the country, imo)

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

hmm, i seem to remember the democrats filibustering a lot as well, (and republicans crying about it) bottom line that is a tool of the minority, and both parties know how to use it (to the detriment of the country, imo)

Dude, Dems never ever filbustered every single bill that came across the Senate Floor for one whole term of Congress. Not ever! So, Trying to compare Republican Filibustering to Democrat Filibustering is like trying to compare George Bush's English to an English Teacher's English.......................It just doesn't make any sense.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Miller101

Dude, Dems never ever filbustered every single bill that came across the Senate Floor for one whole term of Congress. Not ever! So, Trying to compare Republican Filibustering to Democrat Filibustering is like trying to compare George Bush's English to an English Teacher's English.......................It just doesn't make any sense.

I'm not going to give history lessons, I am sure others are better, but I promise if you look back, at the period when every judicial nominee was held up due to democratic filibusters, you would find that the democrats have used that tool with a heavy hand when they felt they had too.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

hmm, i seem to remember the democrats filibustering a lot as well, (and republicans crying about it) bottom line that is a tool of the minority, and both parties know how to use it (to the detriment of the country, imo)

a filibuster is not necessarily a bad thing, it prevents a simple majority from running wild over the minority. A pure democracy (simple majority rule) is not a good thing.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

a filibuster is not necessarily a bad thing, it prevents a simple majority from running wild over the minority. A pure democracy (simple majority rule) is not a good thing.

I agree, and when a party has no other recourse, yes it is going to use the filibuster as it's tool. It's there for a reason and I understand it. When I said to the detriment, I just have a vivid memory of judicial seats going unfilled due to the Democratic minority filibustering to prevent certain appointments. I guess the bigger point that you make is it is a tool of last resort that prevents a minority from being overrun without due process, and that is a good thing to keep the system in balance.

[CRedskinsRule]

The 2 "independents" that took the Democrats from the 58 that Miller said and the 60 supermajority basically always vote Democratic. So while the Democrats may technically have only had 58, they controlled 60 votes, or enough to break a filibuster, until they lost the special election early this year.

From Smoot's article:

Democrats currently have exactly 60 members in their caucus; Republicans have 40. The GOP knows that presidents typically lose House and Senate seats during midterm elections, and is banking on that fact to block much of Obama's agenda.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The 2 "independents" that took the Democrats from the 58 that Miller said and the 60 supermajority basically always vote Democratic. So while the Democrats may technically have only had 58, they controlled 60 votes, or enough to break a filibuster, until they lost the special election early this year.

From Smoot's article:

You're making it sound like Independents are Democrats. And thats where you are wrong. Do I need to remind you that Lieberman, one of the Independents, joined the McCain Campaign last Presidential Election? He actually wanted McCain, the Republican, to be President. Not the Democrat, but the Republican!

Lieberman goes to bat for McCain campaign - The Boston Globe

Or that Lieberman sided with the Republicans for almost all of the Health Care Reform debate? I mean, he even joined the Republican Filibuster of it. He was one of the key reasons that the Public Option was taken out...............I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the Public Option was a very Democratic thing.

Will Sen. Joe Lieberman filibuster health care reform, or won't he? - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

So, trying to call this guy a Democrat is kind of like catching George Bush in the act of speaking English correctly......................................... .....It happens from time to time, but not as much as you would like.

[CRedskinsRule]

From the Wikipedia Senate breakdown:

Party Elected
Democratic Party 57
Republican Party 41
Independents ......2

Again, the Independents both rarely if ever vote against the Democratic vote if it is a major up/down issue.