Who do you want to start at QB?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I can see tossing last year's game. Sometimes it's better to just move on.

I don't see where Rex said anything about not watching this one though, he's just saying he's not going to dwell on it.

Gotcha. Well they need to go back and watch both and see if there is any similarities. Clearly the Eagles watched it and exploited the weaknesses.

[hooskins]

To be honest I think it is fair to "throw away" (like how I did that?) the first INT. It was pretty much an punt. An awesome punt. I see how the 3rd INT could be dicey.

So let's give Rex 2.5 to 2.75 INTs.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by hooskins

To be honest I think it is fair to "throw away" (like how I did that?) the first INT. It was pretty much an punt. An awesome punt. I see how the 3rd INT could be dicey.

So let's give Rex 2.5 to 2.75 INTs.

I can give him a pass on the 1st INT and perhaps even the third. Still, fact is his decision making has been piss poor. And it seems the more he struggles, the more mistakes he makes. INT #4 sent me through the roof. He should have just thrown it out of bounds. Rex throwing on the run is bad news.

[Shadowbyte]

All I know is Shanny is 0 for 2 as far as QB's are concerned. How many more are we going to go through until we find "our-guy"? QB is now the most difficult and expensive position to fill in today's NFL. The only way you're going to get one is either finishing with an abysmal record, like the Lions, Rams, Panthers, Atlanta etc. or you have to take a chance on a mid-first rounder that comes at a high cost and a greater probability to fail.

Last but not least you can go with the nuclear option by giving up 2 to 3 first round picks to trade up or trade for someone outright. There's no easy decisions here. One way or another no good QB comes without great sacrifice, 6th and 7th rounders like Brady and Montana are once a generation, so finding someone that deep isn't a reliable option.

[hooskins]

I am just trying to honestly assess the game a few days after. I am not as pissed off now lol.

The thing about Rex that bothers me more is that doesn't take the easier/shorter route at times. I've noticed our RBs tend to be open in the flats. Also he can really telegraph his passes at times

[SmootSmack]

When you watch the game tape. And this may sound weird, but there are times when the completions are more frustrating than the interceptions. Like there are completions, and then there are good completions. He lately has had more of the former.

[Bucket]

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

Agree 100% I dont understand all the talk about how you get the same results with Rex or Beck. I'm personally intrigued by the idea of seeing what Beck can do if given the start. They are not the same type of QB they cannot be categorized "the same" nor will they statistically produce the same results. I really hope Beck does get a chance and lights it up!

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

Trent Green, Tony Romo and others would argue for Beck

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

I agree.
Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.
Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree.
Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.
Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.

You're going to have to explain the John Beck's unknown = Cam Newton's unknown a little bit further. It seems to break down once you move past "I'm enraged with that thing people thought."

There's a decade of age difference there.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're going to have to explain the John Beck's unknown = Cam Newton's unknown a little bit further. It seems to break down once you move past "I'm enraged with that thing people thought."

There's a decade of age difference there.

How many games has Beck started?
Haw many has Cam started?
I don't care how old a player is, if they have not played extensively like Grossman, we do not know how they will do until they get in there and play more.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

How many games has Beck started?
Haw many has Cam started?

In college, a bunch.

I don't really see the perspective you're selling me. You're trying to link Grossman-Beck with Clausen-Newton. But how many games has Clausen started? How about Grossman?

We don't really know anything about Clausen compared to Grossman. But we knew Cam Newton was the first overall pick and was going to get a shot. All we know about John Beck is that his teammates don't think he's that good and he lost a QB competition to Rex Grossman.

Maybe you're right that he deserves a shot to fail, but that's not exactly the same thing with Cam Newton. People doubted Cam Newton's ability to play in the NFL. But no one thought the Panthers should just play him to get it over with. But, yet, that's the argument for Beck.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I don't care how old a player is, if they have not played extensively like Grossman, we do not know how they will do until they get in there and play more.

If you don't care about age, how is John Beck different from Jimmy Clausen?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.

You don't have to endure listening to anyone on this site. You can not read their posts or put them on your Ignore List.

Declaring Newton an NFL success at QB is a bit premature at best after 6 games, a 78.3 QB rating, two 3 INT games and a 1-5 record. May he reach the potential he has, maybe? Could he still win up a colossal bust, maybe?

Scouting Reports or summaries from some "idiots":

ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report

From the PFW link: Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.

Caution on Cam Newton From Mayock - NYTimes.com

Mayock had him rated as the third best QB.

ESPN's Mel Kiper compares Cam Newton to all-time bust Akili Smith

Kiper also said Newton had the "biggest upside and biggest risk".

Draft's biggest wild card: Is Cam Newton a boom or a bust? - USATODAY.com

"He has a first-round arm and first-round athleticism, but you just can't snap your fingers and say, 'He's NFL-ready,' " NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst Rob Rang said.
Added McShay: "People will ask about his one quote, that he wants to be an entertainer and icon. It raises questions about where his focus is. Do you love the game? Or do you love what the game brings you?
"It's hard to pass on Cam Newton's talent. But I think Blaine Gabbert's better."

Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.

If Beck is an unknown, why is Clausen not an unknown rather than a "3rd string" failure as you infer. Another team will give Clausen a look at some point and hopefully he'll make the most of that opportunity. Currently his record is 1-9 as a starter with a 58.3 QB rate. Not good by any standard, but he improved as the year went on despite playing 7 playoff teams in 10 starts.

Let's look at the others in that class: Tebow - jury's out, but serious limitiations as a passer. We'll find out about Tebow the rest of this year.

McCoy - 4-9 record as starter, 76.3 QB rate. Done some good things, might improve with better talent around him.

Bradford - 7-14 record as starter, 75.3 QB rate. Done some good things on a horrible team. I believe he'll be a solid NFL QB, but not an elite QB.

I haven't seen anyone on this site claim to be an "expert" on NFL QBs. This is a message board and folks come here to share their thoughts and opinions. Some folks agree, some don't, that's what makes it interesting. It's awful easy to bash someone's reasoned opinion on a QB/team/whatever after the fact as "idiotic" or a "Failure", hindsight is 20/20. If you didn't step up and put out a reasoned counter-opinion in my mind you don't have any grounds to criticize.

I wouldn't definitively call people out when the jury is still out on any QBs from the 2010 & 2011 draft classes.....but that's just my opinion, I'm no expert.