Redskins 2011 Draft = Big Success

[Hail to the Redskins]

OK, one thing I have learned over the years...

A) Putting down some one else's opinions doesn't automatically make you the smarter, wiser, or more intelligent person.

B) It's always best to actually READ everything that is written in someone's post before declaring someone is "right" or "wrong" with their OPINION.

... In the original post, I was talking about my impression of ROOKIE PERFORMANCE EXPECTATIONS BASED ON DRAFT POSITION... i.e. based on a CURVE as I was basing it on where we are right now, seeing as how it isn't 2013.

Grading Kerrigan an A+ pick does not mean that he is an A+ LB and is offically better than Sigletary, Urlacher & Ray Lewis combined. It means that he is performing as good as I could have possibly guessed through 10 games playing a new position as a rookie.

90% of my opinion is what I have seen with my own eyes, not stats...

Jenkins, Hankerson, Paul have been praised on numerous occasions by teammates & coaches about their performance in practice, and I've seen things that show they know what the hell they are doing already in certain key areas, FOR A ROOKIE.

As for "stats," DeJon Gomes and his "one game." Mr. "Google Babe Laufenburg" how about you tell me how many 5TH ROUND safeties have made 13 tackles in their first career start as a rookie? Also notice that I didn't give him an "A" and I DID MENTION that it was just one game... but that he already looked better than Reed Doughty (IMO).

And Hankerson... 2 starts, 12 catches for 140 yards and a 2-point conversion where he looked VERY comfortable working the CB off to open space for the back shoulder catch. After watching D. Thomas and M. Kelly, how can you say that he has shown already to be a MUCH better value than either, having picked him in the 3RD ROUND.

As for Helu... If you can't see the difference between how he finds and hits holes compared to Hightower, Torain, Choice, etc. then that's where we really differ. As far as his stats.... Over the past 6 games, Torain has 51 yards on 36 carries, Helu is something around 120 yards on 24 carries... behind the same line.

You don't think you need to see stats to see talent.

Again, let me make the original post clear... the grades aren't player grades as compared to everyone in the NFL. It's based on what I've seen vs what the expectations were for that player based on their draft position.

Why don't you just share YOUR opinion instead of trying to trash someone else's (like others have done in this thread)? It's like those parents that sit in the stands, talk about how their vast experience playing a sport (in rec or high school), coaching their 10 year-old and trashing everything a coach does just so it makes them seem like the supreme guru... makes me shake my head.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

OK, one thing I have learned over the years...

A) Putting down some one else's opinions doesn't automatically make you the smarter, wiser, or more intelligent person.

B) It's always best to actually READ everything that is written in someone's post before declaring someone is "right" or "wrong" with their OPINION.

... In the original post, I was talking about my impression of ROOKIE PERFORMANCE EXPECTATIONS BASED ON DRAFT POSITION... i.e. based on a CURVE as I was basing it on where we are right now, seeing as how it isn't 2013.

Grading Kerrigan an A+ pick does not mean that he is an A+ LB and is offically better than Sigletary, Urlacher & Ray Lewis combined. It means that he is performing as good as I could have possibly guessed through 10 games playing a new position as a rookie.

90% of my opinion is what I have seen with my own eyes, not stats...

Jenkins, Hankerson, Paul have been praised on numerous occasions by teammates & coaches about their performance in practice, and I've seen things that show they know what the hell they are doing already in certain key areas, FOR A ROOKIE.

As for "stats," DeJon Gomes and his "one game." Mr. "Google Babe Laufenburg" how about you tell me how many 5TH ROUND safeties have made 13 tackles in their first career start as a rookie? Also notice that I didn't give him an "A" and I DID MENTION that it was just one game... but that he already looked better than Reed Doughty (IMO).

And Hankerson... 2 starts, 12 catches for 140 yards and a 2-point conversion where he looked VERY comfortable working the CB off to open space for the back shoulder catch. After watching D. Thomas and M. Kelly, how can you say that he has shown already to be a MUCH better value than either, having picked him in the 3RD ROUND.

As for Helu... If you can't see the difference between how he finds and hits holes compared to Hightower, Torain, Choice, etc. then that's where we really differ. As far as his stats.... Over the past 6 games, Torain has 51 yards on 36 carries, Helu is something around 120 yards on 24 carries... behind the same line.

You don't think you need to see stats to see talent.

Again, let me make the original post clear... the grades aren't player grades as compared to everyone in the NFL. It's based on what I've seen vs what the expectations were for that player based on their draft position.

Why don't you just share YOUR opinion instead of trying to trash someone else's (like others have done in this thread)? It's like those parents that sit in the stands, talk about how their vast experience playing a sport (in rec or high school), coaching their 10 year-old and trashing everything a coach does just so it makes them seem like the supreme guru... makes me shake my head.

Since you called me out, Mr. Hail, go back to your original post and find where you talked about "rookie expectations" What you said was :

"The biggest [positive] of all is that our 2011 draft is looking like one of the team's All-Time Best".

Then you go on to rave about individual players - - even ones who have not yet seen a minute of actual playing time on Sundays.

Since you asked, let me tell you about 5th round safeties who make a huge number of tackles in their first game:

1. That means the DL and the LBs aren't making nearly as many as they should.

2. It's one game; that's all it is. It is a better indicator that he might actually become a starter one of these days on a regular basis than exhibition game stats but there are lots of one-game wonders.

By the way, did you happen to take the time to Google "Clint Longley" as I suggested and see his "one-game wonder stats"? He would surely have gotten an "A+" as a signee after that game based on your grading system. His final grade for his career would have to be a D- at best.

Hankerson played well in two games, However, if you have to resort to saying he looked better than D.Thomas and M. Kelly to make your argument that he is an "A" graded pick, you are stretching more than a little bit. Thomas was a stiff; Kelly never played enough - - due to injury - - to be worth more than a used Kleenex. So, if Hankerson gets an "A" from you for being better than a stiff or a used Kleenex, - - you are entitled to your euphoria.

Sadly, Hightower is injured and his contract is up so he may not be back to compete with Helu for the starting RB slot next year.

What I tried to do originally was to point out that your grades were inflated by an awful lot. BTW, several other posters said the same thing; one wished you were handing out grades when he was in school. But now you have changed what you said in order to vent on the fact that most folks thought your original posting was over the top. That's fine; US Senators revise and amend their remarks all the time - - and we know how truthful and insightful they are on every issue.

I am not trashing your opinion; I am saying - - without any apology - - that your grades reflect a sense of "premature excellence".

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Since you called me out, Mr. Hail, go back to your original post and find where you talked about "rookie expectations" What you said was :

"The biggest [positive] of all is that our 2011 draft is looking like one of the team's All-Time Best".

Then you go on to rave about individual players - - even ones who have not yet seen a minute of actual playing time on Sundays.

Since you asked, let me tell you about 5th round safeties who make a huge number of tackles in their first game:

1. That means the DL and the LBs aren't making nearly as many as they should.

2. It's one game; that's all it is. It is a better indicator that he might actually become a starter one of these days on a regular basis than exhibition game stats but there are lots of one-game wonders.

By the way, did you happen to take the time to Google "Clint Longley" as I suggested and see his "one-game wonder stats"? He would surely have gotten an "A+" as a signee after that game based on your grading system. His final grade for his career would have to be a D- at best.

Hankerson played well in two games, However, if you have to resort to saying he looked better than D.Thomas and M. Kelly to make your argument that he is an "A" graded pick, you are stretching more than a little bit. Thomas was a stiff; Kelly never played enough - - due to injury - - to be worth more than a used Kleenex. So, if Hankerson gets an "A" from you for being better than a stiff or a used Kleenex, - - you are entitled to your euphoria.

Sadly, Hightower is injured and his contract is up so he may not be back to compete with Helu for the starting RB slot next year.

What I tried to do originally was to point out that your grades were inflated by an awful lot. BTW, several other posters said the same thing; one wished you were handing out grades when he was in school. But now you have changed what you said in order to vent on the fact that most folks thought your original posting was over the top. That's fine; US Senators revise and amend their remarks all the time - - and we know how truthful and insightful they are on every issue.

I am not trashing your opinion; I am saying - - without any apology - - that your grades reflect a sense of "premature excellence".

Much like a politician, you have selected hearing/reading skills to suit your agenda that is VERY largely based around your narcissism.

It is ABUNDANTLY clear that you are VERY fond of yourself and your opinions. Any opinion that differs from yours must come from a simple, premature mind.

For you to disagree that the 2011 draft hasn't already proven to be the best in years once again, BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE SHOWN THUSFAR AND ALSO BASED ON THEIR DRAFT POSITION (as I have mentioned three times now), or that Helu isn't that great... then I think there are people that would like you are a little slow and oblivious... but guess what... most people wouldn't try and make you sound dim-witted.

So you disagree on Helu, Hankerson, Jenkins, etc. and that's fine. But I've seen them all play and in my childish, delusional opinion (not based on 8 seasons of 16 games started in the NFL, I realize), they are all going to be regular starters in the NFL. In my opinion, those three I mentioned are going to be VERY GOOD starters.

You COULD have a "mature" response... i.e. "In my opinion, the guys in the 2011 draft..." instead of telling me to look up Clint Longley, Babe Laufenburg, Timothy Smith, Brian Bosworth or any other name from history to just try and somehow prove a) that I don't have the plethora of knowledge and expreience as you and b) that my opinion to be an inferior one... To ME... THAT is "immature" and very condescending.

For you to use words like "to make your argument" is the exact reason I cannot stand reading your posts. This thread was never meant to be an "argument." I stated my opinion and clearly ended it with "what do you think?"

You come back with a post clearly intended to make me sound small-minded and then I was put into a position in which I needed to clarify to you what I based my opinion on.

When I "argued" that Hankerson is clearly better than Thomas or Kelly, I was saying that I have seen the 3 of them play... and that Hankerson, as a 3rd Round Pick, will have a much better career as receiver than either of those 2nd Round Picks. This is based on what I have seen with my own eyeballs (how he runs routes, moves his body in space and around a defender), not what I googled about Anthony Allen (I'm sure you, the Super Guru Curmudgeon can figure that one out, right?).

Look, I guess my biggest mistake was not being more clear with how I finished the original post. I assume now that I should've ended with, "What do you guys think about the 2011 draft?" ... I understand now that you read it as, "How idiotic do you think I am?"

Respond once again all you wish, trying to condescend and ridicule me and my posts, but to end all of this... I will be the adult and say "Let's just agree to disagree" and move on.



Hail to the Redskins! It felt great to feel a win again yesterday!

[skinster]

Disagree, I think its a little overly optimistic.

Kerrigan is an A-/B+ IMO. He's a solid pick, but not a stud. His stats I believe to be a little misleading. Pretty much every sack I've seen him make he is either untouched, or not being blocked by an O-linemen. Once he beats his first couple double team's then I'll conceed the A+

Jenkins was a pre-season A but now is TBD.

Hankerson is a TBD, but looks promising.

Helu is a C IMO. Nothing more than a guy that can play as the 3rd RB for a long time in the NFL. Most of his yards seem to come from draws on long downs. I don't see him being able to carry the load on any week. Not a bad guy to throw in the mix though.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by skinster

Disagree, I think its a little overly optimistic.

Kerrigan is an A-/B+ IMO. He's a solid pick, but not a stud. His stats I believe to be a little misleading. Pretty much every sack I've seen him make he is either untouched, or not being blocked by an O-linemen. Once he beats his first couple double team's then I'll conceed the A+

Jenkins was a pre-season A but now is TBD.

Hankerson is a TBD, but looks promising.

Helu is a C IMO. Nothing more than a guy that can play as the 3rd RB for a long time in the NFL. Most of his yards seem to come from draws on long downs. I don't see him being able to carry the load on any week. Not a bad guy to throw in the mix though.

So one Kerrigan beats a few double teams he's a A? I've seen Nield beat a few double teams this year. He's an A!

Nice grade system lol

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Bucket

So one Kerrigan beats a few double teams he's a A? I've seen Nield beat a few double teams this year. He's an A!

Nice grade system lol

I doubt that's true. All I'm saying is that to be an A plass rusher, you have to beat the double team, not get to the qb by beating tight ends and backs.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by skinster

I doubt that's true. All I'm saying is that to be an A plass rusher, you have to beat the double team, not get to the qb by beating tight ends and backs.

3 of Kerrigans sacks this year have been when he's beaten the RT, 2 were from just hustle when the QB scrambled...

[SkinzzFan]

[QUOTE=Bucket;863137]3 of Kerrigans sacks this year have been when he's beaten the RT, 2 were from just hustle when the QB scrambled...[/QUOTE

2 "were just from hustle"? Seriously? I wish EVERY player who "just hustle" on every play.

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by skinster

Helu is a C IMO. Nothing more than a guy that can play as the 3rd RB for a long time in the NFL. Most of his yards seem to come from draws on long downs. I don't see him being able to carry the load on any week. Not a bad guy to throw in the mix though.

One game does not a player make. But Helu looked pretty impressive when he's gotten the start, and -- against a good run defense today vs. Seahawks. The jump-over-the-guy for TD is one of our few highlights for the season. Also had a decent presence in the passing game.

I think Helu gets an A given how low he was drafted, based on potential so far. We'll see in 3 years if this remains true.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by ethat001

One game does not a player make. But Helu looked pretty impressive when he's gotten the start, and -- against a good run defense today vs. Seahawks. The jump-over-the-guy for TD is one of our few highlights for the season. Also had a decent presence in the passing game.

I think Helu gets an A given how low he was drafted, based on potential so far. We'll see in 3 years if this remains true.

Helu is my last hope to have any chance in Fantasy Football this year.

[Jontrem]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Helu is my last hope to have any chance in Fantasy Football this year.

Yeesh, that's not a great position to be in!

[That Guy]

well, based on plasyer performance they did fine, but on origanizational roster building (ie not getting a good QB or OL guys) they failed miserably.

[NC_Skins]

Truthfully, it's way too soon to be grading this years draft.

[diehardskin2982]

IMO This draft class was significantly better draft then past seasons. We have 9 of 12 draft picks that have seen the field and made an impact in one form or another is huge. Not to mention that we obtained all of these players by trading down and not losing picks in this years draft.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by skinster

I doubt that's true. All I'm saying is that to be an A plass rusher, you have to beat the double team, not get to the qb by beating tight ends and backs.

Now when you say plass rusher, do you mean the loose Norwegian translation for place or are you referring to to the American automobile "the Plass", made by Reuben Plass in 1897? Just wanted to check before I respond to your post.