2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Joe Biden was a little over the top and rude at times, but let's not go overboard here. No one's not voting Democrat or switching parties over last night. And the idea of fence sitters this late in the game is complete and utter bullshit. People know where they stood far in advance of these debates.

Joe Biden won the debate hands down, but I thought Paul Ryan handled himself well. Call it a draw, a split decision or whatever, but it won't change the fundamentals of the race.

Theatrics aside, I did think it was for the most part substantive.

In my opinion, (1) Biden was more than a "a little over the top"; (2) not sure I agree that Biden won "hands down", I would agree with pretty much everything else you've said.

Debates bump your base and maybe pick up a few fence sitters (or more accurately, give a final push off the fence for people already leaning your way). Poll numbers indicate that their are still undecideds in this race, my guess is most are leaning one way or another and are just looking for a reason not to stay home on election day. As you said, nothing in this debate changed any of the fundamentals.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Joe Biden was a little over the top and rude at times, but let's not go overboard here. No one's not voting Democrat or switching parties over last night. And the idea of fence sitters this late in the game is complete and utter bullshit. People know where they stood far in advance of these debates.

Joe Biden won the debate hands down, but I thought Paul Ryan handled himself well. Call it a draw, a split decision or whatever, but it won't change the fundamentals of the race.

Theatrics aside, I did think it was for the most part substantive.

I planned to vote Libertarian, and still likely will, but I did watch the debate (didn't watch the first one) and for me Biden's over the top act moved me closer to vote for Romney.

I probably will watch the last debate (there is one more right?) and end up voting Libertarian cause I won't like either of them.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I think none of that matters in the current state of political affairs. I would cite many Tea Party speeches as examples. Biden came out and spoke with populist appeal.

The other side has "brought it" like this numerous times and the dems just run away with their tail between their legs. Cheers to Biden for recognizing what needed to be done with this debate. And cheers for being a bit upset with the Romney/Ryan ticket, which has flip flopped on numerous issues to see what sticks. Ryan looked startled and canned in his responses IMO.

Keep in mind, these "debates" are more about confidence and command than substance. I think Biden won in all those areas.

Acting like a child, being unprofessional and rude - all of these, to me, do not demonstrate "confidence and command" but rather the exact opposite. I don't care if it's Biden, Democrats, Tea Partiers or Abraham Lincoln - such demeanor in a supposedly civil debate was inappropriate and unprofessional.

Are you trying to tell me that, if the demeanors had been switched and it was Ryan interrupting, smirking, etc., you would credit Ryan for exhibiting "confidence and command"? Really?

Pardon me if I find that hard to believe.

[CRedskinsRule]

FACT CHECK: Slips in vice president's debate - Yahoo! News

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Funny you say that. As a lawyer when your in court its like a debate. If you acted like Biden a judge would have kicked you out of the court room in the first 10 minutes.

These "debates" aren't like court cases either, so I'm not following why we should use that as a comparison.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Acting like a child, being unprofessional and rude - all of these, to me, do not demonstrate "confidence and command" but rather the exact opposite. I don't care if it's Biden, Democrats, Tea Partiers or Abraham Lincoln - such demeanor in a supposedly civil debate was inappropriate and unprofessional.

Are you trying to tell me that, if the demeanors had been switched and it was Ryan interrupting, smirking, etc., you would credit Ryan for exhibiting "confidence and command"? Really?

Pardon me if I find that hard to believe.

Maybe not. I mean there are several factors here.

1- Ryan is much younger and less experienced than Biden. If Ryan acted the same way I would think he has very little footing for such a reaction. I think Biden, on the other hand, does.

2 - my mind has already been made up prior to this debate, based on the issues and the respective party platforms. I'm sure that has an impact on my thoughts. Additionally I would say that's exactly what Biden needed to do. Energize supporters after a poor Obama debate performance. I wouldn't be surprised if the polls push back over to the dems side since there will be more energized dems. Same thing happened in the polls due to gops voters last week.

3 - civil and professional debates would be great but the general population doesn't care. It's a combination of lack of education/awareness, a two party system full of bickering even G.W. warned us about, lack of campaign finance reform and out of control dollars in the game (via Super PACs and lobbyists). This isnt changing anytime soon, unless there is a popular referendum or uprising. So I'm fine with the realistic candidate, which I most support, finding a way to win.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Maybe not. I mean there are several factors here.

1- Ryan is much younger and less experienced than Biden. If Ryan acted the same way I would think he has very little footing for such a reaction. I think Biden, on the other hand, does.

2 - my mind has already been made up prior to this debate, based on the issues and the respective party platforms. I'm sure that has an impact on my thoughts. Additionally I would say that's exactly what Biden needed to do. Energize supporters after a poor Obama debate performance. I wouldn't be surprised if the polls push back over to the dems side since there will be more energized dems. Same thing happened in the polls due to gops voters last week.

3 - civil and professional debates would be great but the general population doesn't care. It's a combination of lack of education/awareness, a two party system full of bickering even G.W. warned us about, lack of campaign finance reform and out of control dollars in the game (via Super PACs and lobbyists). This isnt changing anytime soon, unless there is a popular referendum or uprising. So I'm fine with the realistic candidate, which I most support, finding a way to win.

Thank you for answering the question respectfully, honestly and thoroughly. Had Ryan done so last night, my opinion of him would be higher. Had Biden done so last night, my opinion of him would be higher.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I dunno guys, if Romney is considered the winner again, I might change my vote.

[NC_Skins]

I keep hearing "communist" and "socialist" thrown around with Obama with none of these people actually knowing what they really mean. Let's be honest, the only reason they are using these terms is because of the social backlash they would get from using their preferred choice of nigger to describe Obama. **** these simple minded people. I've never seen a President during my life get the amount of hate this man has. While he hasn't been the best, he doesn't deserve the type of hate being thrown at him.

A friend posted this on facebook and it about sums it up when it comes to people calling Obama a socialist/communist.

http://i.imgur.com/RMhXu.png

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I keep hearing "communist" and "socialist" thrown around with Obama with none of these people actually knowing what they really mean. Let's be honest, the only reason they are using these terms is because of the social backlash they would get from using their preferred choice of nigger to describe Obama. **** these simple minded people. I've never seen a President during my life get the amount of hate this man has. While he hasn't been the best, he doesn't deserve the type of hate being thrown at him.

A friend posted this on facebook and it about sums it up when it comes to people calling Obama a socialist/communist.

http://i.imgur.com/RMhXu.png

It seems like the left likes to find reasons to use the N word but blame it on what the right must be thinking.

[Gtothearry]

It's amazing how some people can be so blinded by their respective party lines.

To say Ryan or Biden dominated that debate is crazy. I personally would call the debate a draw. Both had their positives and negatives with each topic.

How is it disrespectful for Romney to interrupt Obama but it's ok for Biden to do so with Ryan? This works both ways though.

I hope people can put aside their party obligations and look at the issues without bias.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Thank you for answering the question respectfully, honestly and thoroughly. Had Ryan done so last night, my opinion of him would be higher. Had Biden done so last night, my opinion of him would be higher.

No prob.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Giantone

He did'nt have to be ,Palin is stupid...Ryan is not,just young

Ryan is a better candidate. But his policies to date, and perhaps his views, are as radical as Palin's. If not more.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Oh I see, so if he's debating an attractive white male then all bets are off? What.....hey no homo, I have seen plenty of comments from women that think Paul Ryan is a hotie........no homo.

Actually it is kind of funny to see women fawning over him.


Well you guys get the picture....oh and no homo.

That's rich considering he's a huge advocate for women's rights. Oh wait.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by hooskins

That's rich considering he's a huge advocate for women's rights. Oh wait.

Actually it's the great equalizer. It's like okay we'll have a guy thats wants to overturn Roe vs Wade but he'll be good looking so in the end it'll be a wash.

Luckily overturning Roe vs Wade is unlikely but it's still a little to close for comfort. Still I miss the days where I was able to talk about how the Republican VP nominee was hot even though she wasn't really qualified to be VP.