Legalize it!

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I love how this discussion has turned into a debate about the tax and general economic considerations of a legalized, domestic pot market.

I think that's because there's really no reason that it should be illegal. All the arguments against it are pretty easy to shoot down since alcohol and tobacco are legal.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

I think that's because there's really no reason that it should be illegal. All the arguments against it are pretty easy to shoot down since alcohol and tobacco are legal.

Easy for one side, I guess. Since carrying a concealed firearm is legal then I guess it should be legal to carry a concealed grenade? Just because alcohol and tobacco are legal doesn't mean it's right to make other drugs legal regardless if they're any more or less potent. That sounds like some sort of whiney kid's argument: "Well my friend Bobby gets to stay up late, why can't I?" I say count your blessings that alcohol and tobacco are legal.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

It's about perspective, because I find it laughable to say that guns are to grenades what alcohol is to pot (that would not pass for a good SAT analogy).

Plus, once again, look at the original reasons that pot was made illegal in this country and tell me that crap still holds water.

Legal issues of cannabis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The name marijuana (Mexican Spanish marihuana, mariguana) is associated almost exclusively with the plant's psychoactive use. The term is now well known in English largely due to the efforts of American drug prohibitionists during the 1920s and 1930s, which deliberately used a Mexican name for cannabis in order to turn the populace against the idea that it should be legal, playing upon attitudes towards race. (See 1937 Marihuana Tax Act). Those who demonized the drug by calling it marihuana omitted the fact that the "deadly marihuana" was identical to cannabis indica, which had at the time a reputation for pharmaceutical safety.[73]

Although cannabis has been used for its psychoactive effects since ancient times, it first became well known in the United States during the jazz music scene of the late 1920s and 1930s. Louis Armstrong became a prominent and life-long devotee. It was popular in the blues scene as well, and eventually became a prominent part of 1960s counterculture.

*I know Wikipedia can be biased too, but this is very similar to the information I found when doing research for my college thesis.

And BTW, I don't smoke weed anymore (I did up until about 4 years ago, in college) but I do think it should be decriminalized.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

It's about perspective, because I find it laughable to say that guns are to grenades what alcohol is to pot (that would not pass for a good SAT analogy).

The analogy is fairly passable, both are devices used to inflict casualties on a small group of people. A handgun is more effective at killing people than a grenade is. Alcohol and weed are substances that people use to make them feel better or cope with things they themselves are unable to handle on their own. The fact is the government has determined that it would not be conducive to general populace's health to legalize every possible means of harming other individuals.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

The analogy is fairly passable, both are devices used to inflict casualties on a small group of people. A handgun is more effective at killing people than a grenade is. Alcohol and weed are substances that people use to make them feel better or cope with things they themselves are unable to handle on their own. The fact is the government has determined that it would not be conducive to general populace's health to legalize every possible means of harming other individuals.

I understand that, I just thought you were saying that weed is that much more detrimental than alcohol; as in, a grenade causes that much more damage than a handgun.
Personally I think it's more like the law allowing you to carry bowie knife in a sheath on your hip but not a switch blade in your pocket.

[Hog1]

[quote=Mattyk72;296063]Right, I'm talking about things that are unprocessed. Things like coke, booze, etc., come from natural ingredients of course but need to be processed into their final forms.

I'm not sure about opium, but they do use the poppy seeds for food. I'm not 100% sure of the process of turning the plant into it's drug form though.

Well, just an fyi, you got your Peyote
Peyote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you got your Coca leaf
Coca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you got your mushrooms
Psilocybin mushrooms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure there are many more I am not aware of

[MTK]

[quote=Hog1;296545]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Right, I'm talking about things that are unprocessed. Things like coke, booze, etc., come from natural ingredients of course but need to be processed into their final forms.

I'm not sure about opium, but they do use the poppy seeds for food. I'm not 100% sure of the process of turning the plant into it's drug form though.

Well, just an fyi, you got your Peyote
Peyote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you got your Coca leaf
Coca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you got your mushrooms
Psilocybin mushrooms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure there are many more I am not aware of

Thanks, I figured there were more.

Those should all be legal too

[ArtMonkDrillz]

I just realized, if TB MOD IV finds out we've all been talking about illegal drugs all day we're all gonna get banned for a year!!!
I think it's time I cut out of this conversation!

[Hog1]

Like Matty is saying to legalize (all natural) them all. I don't know if he is serious about that or not, but I cannot agree.
There are many people in the world who don't need the level of freedom to choose yes or no on illegal, potentially deadly, and certainly addictive drug use.
To do so make us Amsterdam. We don't want that.
While some may view it as Government invasion where it does not belong, it's not that simple. There are certainly many health risks associated with drug use, and it's frequently attendant addiction. For those of you preparing to scream "ALCOHOL". Yes, it shares many of the same qualities and problems. It's these same arguements and health risks paid for by the public sector that have shut down a substancial portion of the tobacco industry.
Gotta' say no.
I don't believe that sends the correct message to society in general, and I don't believe that would be a positive move.
You.............slaves to the leaf will have to continue to operate in the soft underbelly of society

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Hog,

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?

[Monksdown]

I am concerned about the validity of the poll results. Don't you think that those in favor are instantly attracted to this thread. If you don't, you don't care. If you do, you do.

I wonder if that's the reason for the results.

Or I hope it's just that the skins fans are just ****ing cool.

_____________________________________________
"are you cool man...."

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Hog,

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?

The points you bring up are valid, are not answered simply, or absolutely. In truth, I do not know the answers. I can say for me, the legalization of Smoke is not that big of a deal. The legalization of other more powerful drugs may have a more profound effect. I simply don't believe that, that society is one we want to live in. Yes, I believe that the species of man has to be regulated by ( at least some) law, or chaos ensues. I view the legalization of virtually all mind benders as a serious step in the wrong direction.

And yes, I would love to see America ruled by something other than money! Until then, fast food stays.
Let's face it, Strychnine is heavily regulated. Why, no money in it. Nobody cares. Same result as fast food?? just slower.

Maybe it's like helmet laws?? To stupid to wear a helmet?? No problem, it's my head, right? Wrong. Your head, my health care dollars?

I would love to weigh in on the gun issue, but I will save that for another time, as I don't believe it germane to this arena.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Hog,

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?

I know this was directed to Hog, SGG, but I'd like say that this kind of argument seems to say "legalize it all or don't make any of it legal".

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I don't agree that domestic businesses would not be able to compete in a global pot market.

The first reason is import taxes. Surely the government would tax imported pot, just as they do other imported goods. This would raise the cost of imported pot, thereby giving the domestic businesses a small advantage over them.

Couldn't the government theoretically raise the import taxes for marijuana so high that it would make it nearly impossible for other companies to import it?

This would require a domestic market and infrastructure to grow substantially and thus solve any global trade problems. This would pour money into the government, and help boost the overall economy. Farmers would be making money, increasing the demand for farming equipment, farming supplies, and a whole sort of things.

It would totally benefit the economy, help free up resources for law enforcement, unclog the courts, etc.

One problem could be what to do with the convicted criminals in jail right now on marijuana charges. Once pot becomes legal, what happens to people convicted on multiple charges, with some of them being marijuana charges.

---------------

On an interesting side note, a good friend of mine recently interviewed a former DEA agent for a report for one of his classes. Apparently a lot of the agents don't even worry about marijuana, and assume it will be legal once the general population finds it acceptable. There also ARE marijuana testing equipment readily available should any legislation be passed. Every thing is in place, just the general public is what holds it back.

Thought that was interesting.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I didn't mean to say that everything that's bad should be legal or illegal. I meant to point out that a principled objection to the legalization of marijuana based on health care considerations, costs to society, and the belief that the government should decide such issues for the people is inconsistent with a republican principles and the notion that fast food should be legal, untaxed, etc.