Where are Kelly & Thomas?

[MTK]

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

Marko looked pretty good in August and at least earned a roster spot. Still yet to see how he looks in real action but there's some promise there.

I'm still not ready to give up Thomas and Kelly. We'll see how that plays out.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Marko looked pretty good in August and at least earned a roster spot. Still yet to see how he looks in real action but there's some promise there.

I'm still not ready to give up Thomas and Kelly. We'll see how that plays out.

I agree. But I am just wondering why Marko is not ready. Mike Martz say there is a huge learning curve for WR second only to QB. Because the WR have to read defenses also. But I guess that is why so many people are Hixon so hard. He should be getting our receivers ready. Teaching them the routes and how to run them properly. Also the tricks of the trade. How to make your breaks. how to field off defenders using your body to make it harder for them to make INTS. Like on that interception JC threw that was intended for Kelly. He let a smaller defender jam him then pin him to the sidelines the whole route. Then he had a bad position on the jump ball and didn't little to break up the interception. I am in no way saying the INT was Kelly's fault though. I just wonder what Hixon is teaching these guys. If they are not listening to his direction when it comes to game time. He sould sometimes bench them for another WR like Marko. One to proove a point. Secondly to see if someone else can do better.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Marko looked pretty good in August and at least earned a roster spot. Still yet to see how he looks in real action but there's some promise there.

I'm still not ready to give up Thomas and Kelly. We'll see how that plays out.

I think this kind of makes part of the point I keep trying to make. In preseason, you can see if a guy has the talent to hang around. It's not NFL grade, moreso College on steroids. The fact that Marko shined, and that DT and MK had good preseasons, to me says there is ability, that could be refined by a good WR coach. But what we have is probably an above average College WR coach. A lot of college WR coaches couldn't make it at the NFL level, and I think that is the case with Hixon too. He can coach the WR basics, but can he show him what he needs to do against NFL CB's?

I don't know, really, I know I could watch him day in and day out, and probably be impressed, but the results of 5 years and average at best production says to me, lets see if there is someone better.

[GridIron26]

Smith worked with receivers today; I hope this will help receivers out a lot.. We will find out soon enough, within few weeks..

Lewis Begins Evaluation At First Redskins Practice

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

An excellent, excellent post sir! You get to the ultimate crux of it: either the talent evaluators in our organization who search out WRs are horrible OR Hixon is horrible. I completely agree it's extremely important to get to the bottom of it; however, I suspect that won't happen here. For one thing we'll constantly have devil's advocates defending the talent evaluators, Hixon, or both LOL.

Personally though, I tend to think the answer is simply both. Talent evaluation/FO decision-making isn't terribly impressive AND Hixon is utterly incompetent.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

Matty you are being very cynical. You know full well what this person is trying to say. Giving a name is not necessary when you look at Hixon's full body of work as far as coaching WRs goes. Maybe it is the talent that is being brought in. Maybe its the evaluation process. But overall a coach should make players better. If you are a WR coach you would be teaching your receivers the tools they need to be successful. He hasn't. Plain and simple. Whether they are a 1st rounders or undrafted he hasn't yielded any results from the players that are brought in. ARE and Moss were already vets before they came to this team. So who is he improving? He isn't doing that well as a teacher when we bring in WRs and they can barely make a play. Zorn says Mitchell does not know the short routes. How long does it take to learn? Who is supposed to teach him? If you are a teacher you bring the best out of a student. You might not be able to make a F student a A student. But you should atleast be able to get them to a D or C-. If not. Why is he here?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Matty you are being very cynical. You know full well what this person is trying to say. Giving a name is not necessary when you look at Hixon's full body of work as far as coaching WRs goes. Maybe it is the talent that is being brought in. Maybe its the evaluation process. But overall a coach should make players better. If you are a WR coach you would be teaching your receivers the tools they need to be successful. He hasn't. Plain and simple. Whether they are a 1st rounders or undrafted he hasn't yielded any results from the players that are brought in. ARE and Moss were already vets before they came to this team. So who is he improving? He isn't doing that well as a teacher when we bring in WRs and they can barely make a play. Zorn says Mitchell does not know the short routes. How long does it take to learn? Who is supposed to teach him? If you are a teacher you bring the best out of a student. You might not be able to make a F student a A student. But you should atleast be able to get them to a D or C-. If not. Why is he here?

No, I'm really not. If the argument is Hixon sucks and the reasoning is because he hasn't been able to make stars out of bums who haven't don't anything anywhere else either, I guess I just don't buy that as a legit answer.

I think overall people place too much emphasis on coaching at times. Sometimes you just don't have the horses. We really haven't had a ton of talent at WR for years now. Moss is good but a borderline #1. ARE is a slot guy. Thomas and Kelly are still pretty green experience wise.

I'm not saying Hixon is anything great, but look at a comparable situation with someone like Bugel. He hasn't been able to turn shit into stars either. Why? The talent really hasn't been there.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No, I'm really not. If the argument is Hixon sucks and the reasoning is because he hasn't been able to make stars out of bums who haven't don't anything anywhere else either, I guess I just don't buy that as a legit answer.

I think overall people place too much emphasis on coaching at times. Sometimes you just don't have the horses. We really haven't had a ton of talent at WR for years now. Moss is good but a borderline #1. ARE is a slot guy. Thomas and Kelly are still pretty green experience wise.

I'm not saying Hixon is anything great, but look at a comparable situation with someone like Bugel. He hasn't been able to turn shit into stars either. Why? The talent really hasn't been there.

Who are our big talent evaluators are WR? Does that start at the scouts and work all of the way to the FO?

Everybody is missing on every pick in the past.. well almost forever?

I mean I don't know a lot about Hixon, I'd like to see him make somebody at least solid, but it's not like we've had WR issues for only the what, 5 years he's been here?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No, I'm really not. If the argument is Hixon sucks and the reasoning is because he hasn't been able to make stars out of bums who haven't don't anything anywhere else either, I guess I just don't buy that as a legit answer.

I think overall people place too much emphasis on coaching at times. Sometimes you just don't have the horses. We really haven't had a ton of talent at WR for years now. Moss is good but a borderline #1. ARE is a slot guy. Thomas and Kelly are still pretty green experience wise.

I'm not saying Hixon is anything great, but look at a comparable situation with someone like Bugel. He hasn't been able to turn shit into stars either. Why? The talent really hasn't been there.

Perhaps the majority are lemons, but when you have lemons you make lemon juice. I would argue Keenan McCardell is atleast one, and Pinkston another. No they are not T.O. caliber or R.Moss, but they are not fodder either. I would also argue that a more talented WR Coach might have done a better job with almost half of these.

My last arguement would be that I would have a hard time believing that the team picked up these so called "camp scrubb" with out atleast consoling Hixon in regards to these guys which means Hixon is a dumb donkey at evaluating talent and bring in guys who will make a difference to the team ....which confirms what I'm saying all along.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

My last arguement would be that I would have a hard time believing that the team picked up these so called "camp scrubb" with out atleast consoling Hixon in regards to these guys which means Hixon is a dumb donkey at evaluating talent and bring in guys who will make a difference to the team ....which confirms what I'm saying all along.

Freudian slip?

Anyhow, to say that Hixon is a dumb donkey at evaluating talent is a bit ridiculous. Over half the guys you listed were basically just camp bodies (almost none who have made it anywhere else)

[budw38]

Time will tell , lets face it , if Kelly or Thomas were on the Colts , Manning would make them look pretty darn good , as he has done with some very young WR's , Garcon / Collie .

[53Fan]

I think working with the receivers first after watching film is a good idea. Not that Hixon would need any help...:yeahright

[MTK]

Redskins Insider - Kelly Reveals Thumb Injury