Can We Bench Brunell Now

TheMalcolmConnection · 10-16-2006, 11:36 AM

Apparently it's in the WP too.

Southpaw · 10-16-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

NFL.com - NFL Stats

Top 10 good enough for ya? Yes? No? Whatever.

What's your argument? After yesterdays game, Brunell is 12th in passing yards and rating(middle of the pack). He's also 23rd in passing touchdowns, with five TD's in six games...

I'm a numbers guy myself, so here's a few more stats.

Passer rating for each game:

Vikings - 76.9
Cowboys - 61.6
Texans - 119.3
Jaguars - 117.2
Giants - 68.2
Titans - 68.8

That looks like the definition of inconsistence to me. If everything isn't going perfectly in Washington's favor, he falls apart.

JWsleep · 10-16-2006, 11:42 AM

Let's get something clear: bring up the D in this thread is a red herring. Yes, they sucked--and that is to my mind the most fundamentla problem with the skins. But that DOES NOT LET MB OF THE HOOK. Two wrongs don't make a right.

MB is done, and the stats are decieving IMO. He doesn't have a strong arm (JC does), he doesn;t move well any more (JC does), and he seems to get happy-feet and be unable to make good reads (JC could do that, for what it's worth). Outside of the bomb to Lloyd, his passes were largely short and dumpoff. He had several easy INTs dropped, and he threw into triple coverage to end the game. Does this really give us "the best chance to win"? I am dubious... People outside the skins don't think so; it seems like Gibbs is the last die-hard supporter.

Start JC for a number of reasons:

1. He needs experience--the obnly way to learn to read NFL defenses is to play against them.

2. If he isn't good, we need to know ASAP.

3. He showed flashes of what he can do in preseason. In this offense, with these playmakers, he wouldn't have to win games on his own, folks. He's got CP, Cooley, Moss, ARE, etc, etc. And we know he is very coachable--not a loose cannon who will do crazy stuff. He can win us ball games, or at least do like MB is supposed: not lose them.

4. The team needs a lift. Whatever is going on in public, you know behind close doors and in private, the playmakers of this offense are getting down.

5. It will give us fans something meaningful to root for this season (assuming, as I do, given the schedule, that we are in all probablity done).

6. If I here one more Gibbs quote about super-smart MB fighting his guts out, I am going to puke MY guts out.

GTripp0012 · 10-16-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Gibbs is never going to bench MB. MB wont be the QB next year, maybe it will be Campbell (maybe not) but all that means is another rebuild year with a new QB learning the system.

Philip Rivers anyone? Jason Campbell projects to the NFL just as well. Why rush him?

T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R. · 10-16-2006, 11:52 AM

I say wait one more game. I agree with other posters that it sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon and the season isn't lost yet... but it's getting close.

If we lose next week, I pine for Campbell.

Beemnseven · 10-16-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

I'm sure that report is total BS.

It was in the WP, reported by someone who heard it from the visiting teams' locker room.

The question I have for you is, why is that so far-fetched that something like that could be said?

firstdown · 10-16-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

I don't know if anyone else has said this or not, but if Campbell is ready, why did Collins get the call to warm up when Brunell got hurt? A few weeks ago Saunders said if the time came to make a switch, it would jump from Brunell to Campbell but yet that didn't seem to be the case. Could it be because they don't think he has enough of a grasp on the offense yet? Brunell struggled a couple times today and made some pretty damn nice looking passes at other times. The main reasons the team lost were in order: piss poor tackling, pathetic 10 yard cushions on the recievers, didn't give the ball to Portis enough, penalties on the defense, and then after all of those would be Brunell not taking advantage of a few opportunities. He is struggling right now, but strange things have happened in this league before and the team is not completely out of it yet. I really do want to see what Campbell can do but not before he's deemed ready and able to perform to the level the team needs him to.

They said if brunell was injuried in the game Collins would take over if Brunell could not start a game CJ would start.

wilsowilso · 10-16-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R.

I say wait one more game. I agree with other posters that it sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon and the season isn't lost yet... but it's getting close.

If we lose next week, I pine for Campbell.

It sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon???? What kind of message does it send to keep that bum in there?

Welcome to the board as well!

T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R. · 10-16-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

It sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon???? What kind of message does it send to keep that bum in there?

Welcome to the board as well!

If you leave him in there you're still trying to make it to the playoffs this season. Maybe I'm too optimistic. It's a long shot but realistic enough, and the team HAS been working it's ass off. If you put in Campbell you're playing for next year.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if we had to win just one game, I'd still want Brunell in. And yes, I may be willing to eat my words a few weeks from now.

Adn thanks for the welcome

MTK · 10-16-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Did anyone just hear on Sports Talk 980 where Andy Pollen said that reports said a chant "thank you Mark Brunell" could be heard coming through the closed doors of theTitans locker room after the game.

It should have been thank you Al Saunders for not pounding the rock all day long. 14 carries for Portis... that's not Redskins football.

FRPLG · 10-16-2006, 01:22 PM

I have been a long time Brunell supporter but the evidence is in. We simply cannot rely on him to be consistently good enough to win games. He is not THE problem on offense but he is A problem on offense and unfortunately he has nowhere to go but down. The guy is 36 and when he plays well gives us a good chance to win that is for sure. The problem is that he only plays well about half the time and with the state of our offense we simply cannot over come his bad play. The other problem is that his incosistently could be huge factor in the lack of development in terms of offense. I am not ready to give up on the season but I just don't think that Brunell really does give us the best chance to win week in and week out. I was at the game. He did several things that he has done at other times this season.

1) he simply missed open guys. on maybe 8-9 plays he went to what I would consider a poor option when there were open guys he should have either seen or not ignored.

2) he is almost incapable of throwing intermediate passes. We have complained all along that he doesn't have the arm to go downfield. That is not the problem. He has plenty enough arm to chuck the ball downfield and let fast WRs get to it. He doesn't NOT have the arm to throw a well time and accurate 20 yard seam route in between 2 defenders. Now that is a hard throw but it is throw a good QB can make. He missed 5-6 intermediate throws today and I'd say that he should be expected to have hit 3 of them. I mean on several of them they weren't even close.

And I don't want to hear about him being hurt. If being hurt really affects his effectiveness this bad then that is a BAD thing. Favre spent a career playing through minor injuries. McNabb is doing the same. Hell McNabb played with the same injury that Springs has missed weeks because of. Lots of QBs have little injuries that wont keep them out of games. It just seems that whenever Brunell gets one it doesn't keep him out either but it keeps him from playing well in any way.

illdefined · 10-16-2006, 01:24 PM

sorry if i missed all this before, but was there any talk here about how Brunell was getting shut down by the ol' vanilla Cover-2? and how Santana Moss himself said that that wasn't a real coverage and he could play cornerback himself phenomonally in it?

how US AT THE WARPATH, we're saying the exact same thing BEFORE the Washington Post and Moss chimed in, and we all know our football from a frickin videogame??

how was that not a diss on Brunell by Moss? how was that gameplan vs. the Titans not DON'T RELY ON BRUNELL? now *everyone* knows Brunell's limitations, and not just the other teams defenses. in their ever-so-exotic, made-to-stop-Brunell, anyone-can-do-it, Cover-2.

those dinky passes most of the game were to bypass Brunell and just get the ball to Moss even if it was behind the line of schrimmage. the 2, 3 times he heaved it, you could hear the bones creak.

that one pass to Cooley was a beauty though. Cooley's the only reciever big enough to hit, and slow enough to not run too far for Brunell to throw to in the middle of the field.

yes, the whole team is suffering. when that happens, you look at the QB to be the leader of the team in crisis, not the easily exploited weak point.

FRPLG · 10-16-2006, 01:34 PM

I'd like to know exactly why some people are convinced Brunell gives us the best chance to win in any given week? To me he has proven that he cannot be counted to do the things he needs to do for us to win. Namely, make good decisions and throw accurate short passes. I have totally fallen off his band-wagon and I am not an idito homer fan who yells about the QB. He simply has shown me enough that I can't imagine Campbell doing worse. In fact I think Campbell would have a chance to do better since he still has physical skills to fall back on in absense of quality decision making.

T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R. · 10-16-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It should have been thank you Al Saunders for not pounding the rock all day long. 14 carries for Portis... that's not Redskins football.

yeah, this one still mystifies me. completely.

illdefined · 10-16-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R.

yeah, this one still mystifies me. completely.

i have an idea why. Portis is easy to commit to and stop if your team poses no vertical air threat. Saunders ran the ball alot using Moss and Randle El, so that Portis wasn't the only ground threat to key on. clever attempt to hide your offense's vulnerabilty (Brunell and his middle of the field phobia), but alas keeping everyone within 10yds of the line of schrimmage stopped our screens too. sigh

View Poll Results: Is it time for Brunell to find his way to the bench?
Yes	89	81.65%
No	20	18.35%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

10-16-2006, 11:36 AM	#151
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,225	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Apparently it's in the WP too. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

10-16-2006, 11:42 AM	#153
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,717	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now Let's get something clear: bring up the D in this thread is a red herring. Yes, they sucked--and that is to my mind the most fundamentla problem with the skins. But that DOES NOT LET MB OF THE HOOK. Two wrongs don't make a right. MB is done, and the stats are decieving IMO. He doesn't have a strong arm (JC does), he doesn;t move well any more (JC does), and he seems to get happy-feet and be unable to make good reads (JC could do that, for what it's worth). Outside of the bomb to Lloyd, his passes were largely short and dumpoff. He had several easy INTs dropped, and he threw into triple coverage to end the game. Does this really give us "the best chance to win"? I am dubious... People outside the skins don't think so; it seems like Gibbs is the last die-hard supporter. Start JC for a number of reasons: 1. He needs experience--the obnly way to learn to read NFL defenses is to play against them. 2. If he isn't good, we need to know ASAP. 3. He showed flashes of what he can do in preseason. In this offense, with these playmakers, he wouldn't have to win games on his own, folks. He's got CP, Cooley, Moss, ARE, etc, etc. And we know he is very coachable--not a loose cannon who will do crazy stuff. He can win us ball games, or at least do like MB is supposed: not lose them. 4. The team needs a lift. Whatever is going on in public, you know behind close doors and in private, the playmakers of this offense are getting down. 5. It will give us fans something meaningful to root for this season (assuming, as I do, given the schedule, that we are in all probablity done). 6. If I here one more Gibbs quote about super-smart MB fighting his guts out, I am going to puke MY guts out. __________________ Hail from Houston!

10-16-2006, 11:52 AM	#155
T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R. Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 94	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now I say wait one more game. I agree with other posters that it sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon and the season isn't lost yet... but it's getting close. If we lose next week, I pine for Campbell.

10-16-2006, 01:22 PM	#161
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now I have been a long time Brunell supporter but the evidence is in. We simply cannot rely on him to be consistently good enough to win games. He is not THE problem on offense but he is A problem on offense and unfortunately he has nowhere to go but down. The guy is 36 and when he plays well gives us a good chance to win that is for sure. The problem is that he only plays well about half the time and with the state of our offense we simply cannot over come his bad play. The other problem is that his incosistently could be huge factor in the lack of development in terms of offense. I am not ready to give up on the season but I just don't think that Brunell really does give us the best chance to win week in and week out. I was at the game. He did several things that he has done at other times this season. 1) he simply missed open guys. on maybe 8-9 plays he went to what I would consider a poor option when there were open guys he should have either seen or not ignored. 2) he is almost incapable of throwing intermediate passes. We have complained all along that he doesn't have the arm to go downfield. That is not the problem. He has plenty enough arm to chuck the ball downfield and let fast WRs get to it. He doesn't NOT have the arm to throw a well time and accurate 20 yard seam route in between 2 defenders. Now that is a hard throw but it is throw a good QB can make. He missed 5-6 intermediate throws today and I'd say that he should be expected to have hit 3 of them. I mean on several of them they weren't even close. And I don't want to hear about him being hurt. If being hurt really affects his effectiveness this bad then that is a BAD thing. Favre spent a career playing through minor injuries. McNabb is doing the same. Hell McNabb played with the same injury that Springs has missed weeks because of. Lots of QBs have little injuries that wont keep them out of games. It just seems that whenever Brunell gets one it doesn't keep him out either but it keeps him from playing well in any way.

10-16-2006, 01:24 PM	#162
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now sorry if i missed all this before, but was there any talk here about how Brunell was getting shut down by the ol' vanilla Cover-2? and how Santana Moss himself said that that wasn't a real coverage and he could play cornerback himself phenomonally in it? how US AT THE WARPATH, we're saying the exact same thing BEFORE the Washington Post and Moss chimed in, and we all know our football from a frickin videogame?? how was that not a diss on Brunell by Moss? how was that gameplan vs. the Titans not DON'T RELY ON BRUNELL? now everyone knows Brunell's limitations, and not just the other teams defenses. in their ever-so-exotic, made-to-stop-Brunell, anyone-can-do-it, Cover-2. those dinky passes most of the game were to bypass Brunell and just get the ball to Moss even if it was behind the line of schrimmage. the 2, 3 times he heaved it, you could hear the bones creak. that one pass to Cooley was a beauty though. Cooley's the only reciever big enough to hit, and slow enough to not run too far for Brunell to throw to in the middle of the field. yes, the whole team is suffering. when that happens, you look at the QB to be the leader of the team in crisis, not the easily exploited weak point. __________________ a fan. not a cheerleader.

10-16-2006, 01:34 PM	#163
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now I'd like to know exactly why some people are convinced Brunell gives us the best chance to win in any given week? To me he has proven that he cannot be counted to do the things he needs to do for us to win. Namely, make good decisions and throw accurate short passes. I have totally fallen off his band-wagon and I am not an idito homer fan who yells about the QB. He simply has shown me enough that I can't imagine Campbell doing worse. In fact I think Campbell would have a chance to do better since he still has physical skills to fall back on in absense of quality decision making.

Can We Bench Brunell Now

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