Does Campbell end the 'Cover 2' excuse?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree, why NOT do something drastic and unexpected on defense to try to get at least back to average? Makes no sense to me either.

At the end of the year, we will have objective (key:non-biased) statistical analysis to see who played better. We won't know until then, so a poll is sort of pointless at this point in time.

all polls are 'useless' come on.

anyway it's obviously a philosophy difference. you guys are expecting the defense to go from Terrible to last year's Awesome.

while we're expecting our offense to go from "Decent" (an average of "sub-par" for us and "good" by your terms) to better-than-last year's Awesome. that was the point of getting ARE and Lloyd afterall.

which side of team is closest to Winning The Game For Us? on defense it would take changing a LOT of players. on offense, it was changing the one who got

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by illdefined

all polls are 'useless' come on.

anyway it's obviously a philosophy difference. you guys are expecting the defense to go from Terrible to last year's Awesome.

while we're expecting our offense to go from "Decent" (an average of "sub-par" for us and "good" by your terms) to better-than-last year's Awesome. that was the point of getting ARE and Lloyd afterall.

which team has closest to travel to reach Winning The Game For Us? on defense it's a LOT of players. on offense, it was the one who got

I agree the bigger team issue right now is defense.

Not sure what your trying to say about philosophy difference...

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

I agree the bigger team issue right now is defense.

Not sure what your trying to say about philosophy difference...

just that trying to fix the entire defense will be a lot harder than attempt to upgrade the offense by changing one key player.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

GTripp,

According to that site's DPAR rankings, Brunell is better than:

Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Rex Grossman
Chad Pennington
Tony Romo
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick

There goes that site's credibility. Please stop citing DPAR, DVOR, or anything from that site.

I've got a stat - 99.999999% of all stats cited on internet sites run by yahoos are B.S.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

He's better than Grossman. That's all I can say.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

GTripp,

According to that site's DPAR rankings, Brunell is better than:

Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Rex Grossman
Chad Pennington
Tony Romo
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick

There goes that site's credibility. Please stop citing DPAR, DVOR, or anything from that site because, if your relying on those stats, you've got no real basis for your contentions.

I'm dissapointed.

It's not like I want you to come out and admit to me that Mark Brunell>Tom Brady. He's not. But if you are going to completely discredit a source, because either you don't understand what they are doing, or it goes against some preconceived notion that you have...thats rediculous.

They aren't perfect, but it's better than say, QB Rating (another stat in which Mark Brunell ranks ahead of Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Rex Grossman, Chad Pennington, Vick and Hasselbeck), because it tries to eliminate the factors a QB can't control.

And I don't even see what you are trying to say. Why CAN'T Brunell be better than those guys. Did he do something against the QB code? Not to say that he is better, but listing names doesn't make a guy better than Brunell.

I'm confused. Maybe I should discredit all stats while I'm at it. We can't have us being led to conclusions that disagree with common opinion now can we.

Actually, they have really good credibility...but I can't help but wonder if you are saying this just to try to win the arguement?

Either way, from a moderator on the warpath, I have come to expect a more open mind.

Whatever.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Really, I think it all comes down to wins and losses. We can look at a Donovan McNabb and see, "Wow, he's the top passing QB in the league." But then you have to look at the percentage of times the Eagles pass versus when they run.

You can look at a Mark Brunell and see that while his passer rating is stellar, his touchdowns are not. You can also look at his average yards per pass.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

They aren't perfect, but it's better than say, QB Rating (another stat in which Mark Brunell ranks ahead of Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Rex Grossman, Chad Pennington, Vick and Hasselbeck), because it tries to eliminate the factors a QB can't control.

And I don't even see what you are trying to say. Why CAN'T Brunell be better than those guys. Did he do something against the QB code? Not to say that he is better, but listing names doesn't make a guy better than Brunell.

You ask why can't Brunell be better than Brady, Manning, Grossman, Palmer, Pennington, Romo, Vick, and Hasselbeck? I can't believe you are actually asking that. I pray that you are not implying that he is better than them.

Either you are: (1) arguing that Brunell is better than those QBs; or (2) you concede that there is something wrong with those stats. So which is it?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Really, I think it all comes down to wins and losses. We can look at a Donovan McNabb and see, "Wow, he's the top passing QB in the league." But then you have to look at the percentage of times the Eagles pass versus when they run.

You can look at a Mark Brunell and see that while his passer rating is stellar, his touchdowns are not. You can also look at his average yards per pass.

Very true. In today's day and age if you say "x player is good" there's probably something to prove him wrong. That's why I like to break it down play by play, and that's the key to FO's work, which is why I trust them. Every play is considered. Not the game totals. Few of us have the time for that, but isn't that the way it should be?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

You ask why can't Brunell be better than Brady, Manning, Grossman, Palmer, Pennington, Romo, Vick, and Hasselbeck? I can't believe you are actually asking that. I pray that you are not implying that he is better than them.

Either you are: (1) arguing that Brunell is better than those QBs; or (2) you concede that there is something wrong with those stats. So which is it?

Neither. I think he's better than Grossman and Vick...and Romo its far far too early to tell.

I will say this, those stats are based on one season. So is Brunell better than any of those remaining guys? Not even close. Has he done his job this season as well as them to this point? Most accounts say yes.

There are always extra reasoning that go along with statistics.

Anyway, Brunell is better in QB rating than most of those guys, so at what point do we discredit all evidence and bicker about nothing? I've said many times that QB rating is a flawed stat, but I'm serious now, when you say that Tom Brady is having a better season than Brunell, what are you basing that on? Record alone? Considering he's one of 53 guys on the Pats, that's pretty weak. Or are you basing it on what you hear from talking heads around the league, and what you accept without challenging.

Don't get me wrong, I also believe Brady is better than Brunell. But this season, Brady isn't as good as he normally is, and Brunell is better than his career average.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

It almost even comes down to gut feeling. Like I can watch Big Ben play all day and in the end, he's not the most accurate passer, hell, he's even won a Super Bowl. He is the product of a great (not-so-great anymore) passing game and using that to set up the pass. In the end, is he still a good QB? Sure, because he makes the plays that leads his team to wins.

Statistically Brunell blew Ben out of the water, but is Brunell right for the system and does he make the plays that let the team win? No. Philip Rivers is another example. While fundamentally, he's better than Ben, he too is the result of an elite back making his job easier.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Don't get me wrong, I also believe Brady is better than Brunell. But this season, Brady isn't as good as he normally is, and Brunell is better.

Just for clarity, are you saying Brunell was a better QB this year than Brady is right now?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Just for clarity, are you saying Brunell was a better QB this year than Brady is right now?

Sorry. I'm saying Brunell is better than Brunell's career average. Got better with age. My bad.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Neither. I think he's better than Grossman and Vick...and Romo its far far too early to tell.

I will say this, those stats are based on one season. So is Brunell better than any of those remaining guys? Not even close. Has he done his job this season as well as them to this point? Most accounts say yes.

Most accounts say Brunell has done as good of a job as those other QBs? I'm not sure what other "accounts" you're referring to.

I supplement statistically analyses with my eyes, and I've seen enough games of all of those QBs to know that Brunell has not been doing a good job and I think the overwhelming majority of other eyes concur.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Ah. And just to play devil's advocate, we could also say that after the dinks and dunks, the receivers weren't making plays after the catch (I disagree, just wanted to throw that out there.).