Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I think you missed my point here. Point is, you are wanting to FORCE doctors that worked damn hard to get where they are to give you free health care. That's not right.
What do you do Matty? Imagine someone saying that you now are owned by the government and you need to do what they say.
Doctors don't go through many years of intense training and hundreds of thousands of dollars in education to be owned by the government.



It's gone away cause there are SOOOOO many people willing to sit around and be lazy and take your money and my money. You are offered insurance at most places of employment...so why is it this is such a huge issue?

Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Very true but what about the children that are uninsured? I mean 10 million children go without it. What blame is that to them? This country is about the american dream and building your own way but the truth is the poor are so much more disadvantaged. I feel at the very least children under 18 deserve health care.

That's called Medicaid.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's called Medicaid.

And that's a good thing to you??

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Doctors would still be paid under a universal system, just maybe not as much as they are now. I guess some might have to give up their summer homes or their 2nd or 3rd beemer, but I'm sure they could adjust to such peasant living.

See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And that's a good thing to you??

Is it not paid by me and you? Is it not free?
Medicaid is EXCELLENT for some poeple, and a lot of kids.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?

So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough. If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Is it not paid by me and you? Is it not free?
Medicaid is EXCELLENT for some poeple, and a lot of kids.

Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/02/news/newsmakers/fahrenheit_charities/

just one example

But that shows the wienstein's contribution, not moore's. Moore still made his $$$$ with no contribution. (that I know of)
It was a good link though, thank you.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

But that shows the wienstein's contribution, not moore's. Moore still made his $$$$ with no contribution. (that I know of)
It was a good link though, thank you.

This is pretty funny and was mentioned in the film

Falling On A Bruise: Michael Moore: Guardian Angel

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough.

It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.

If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.

What would a subpar doctor salary even be?

Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"

Hold on...I didn't say it didn't have "holes" because some people that need it can't get it. However, when someone does get on it, it is excellent. That was my point.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This is pretty funny and was mentioned in the film

Falling On A Bruise: Michael Moore: Guardian Angel

But see, that's what I'm talking about with him. #1- he did it for a guy that was a Moore hater, meaning it was kind of spite thing. Also, Moore giving 12k is like me giving $1 to the homeless vet at wal mart. #2- He mentioned it in his movie because that will give him financial gain. Those who give should be anonymous, he had no intentions of doing so.

If he truely had honest intentions, then I will retract my statement, but I would wager anything he did not have honest intentions.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

But see, that's what I'm talking about with him. #1- he did it for a guy that was a Moore hater, meaning it was kind of spite thing. Also, Moore giving 12k is like me giving $1 to the homeless vet at wal mart. #2- He mentioned it in his movie because that will give him financial gain. Those who give should be anonymous, he had no intentions of doing so.

If he truely had honest intentions, then I will retract my statement, but I would wager anything he did not have honest intentions.

It wasn't out of spite, if you saw the movie you would understand the point of why he did it.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.



It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.



Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.



Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

[dblanch66]

So let me get this straight: Some of you are saying that the American Health Care system is working well and doesn't need to be changed and some of you are saying that is blows.
Moore doesn't attack any political party in this film..by the way...he disects the "system" and concludes that it is not working for the MAJORITY of the country.
I guess it just depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?
Some of you on here are getting mighty "defensive", though.. Hmmm.