Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[Dirtbag59]

[quote=SmootSmack;441667]

Originally Posted by Larry Michael is Satan

Who says we can't? If we realy wanted to do we could trade our #1 for CJ and spend the next 8 picks this year all on offensive linemen.

I doubt this trade takes place, unless Marvin Lewis acts as a voice of reason. I think the question is do you guys think the team would fare better if they had Phillip Merling and Jordy Nelson or would the team be better off with Chad Johnson and possibly a corner or fallen 1st rounder (like Balmer or Campbell).

However right now, while sorting through all these scenarios I think it would be better if the team took Merling, Nelson, Zutah/Hills, and Bowen instead of maybe Chad Johnson, CB/S, DL, OL.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I doubt this trade takes place, unless Marvin Lewis acts as a voice of reason. I think the question is do you guys think the team would fare better if they had Phillip Merling and Jordy Nelson or would the team be better off with Chad Johnson and possibly a corner or fallen 1st rounder (like Balmer or Campbell).

However right now, while sorting through all these scenarios I think it would be better if the team took Merling, Nelson, Zutah/Hills, and Bowen instead of maybe Chad Johnson, CB/S, DL, OL.

Good post. What if you could "combine the two."

Suppose you could trade this year's first for two of the Falcons' 2nd rounders? And you trade next year's 1st and maybe this year's 3rd for CJ? Then you get your WR in CJ then early in the second you can draft someone like DE Jackson and DB Porter?

Overall this isn't an easy decision, but what we're forgetting (or ignoring) is that we have so many options in front of us to make a decision. Unlike other years where we didn't even have that luxury.

I can respect the opinion that there may be better ways to use our picks than to send a first for CJ. But I find it extremely difficult to respect the opinion that this spells the end of our franchise because this one move is going to prevent us from doing anything else for the rest of this off-season.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Larry Michael is Satan:

I agree we shouldn't make the trade, but I think you're overstating your case. Chad Johnson has put up good numbers with a variety of QBs under center not named Carson Palmer. Chad is no Jerry Rice, but he's certainly among the best and most productive wideouts who are currently playing ball. As for our o-line, barring injury, we're in pretty good shape for 2008.

And you just said the magic words. Barring injury!! What are the chances of Kendall playing 16 games on crappy knees? Also we can't expect Jansen to play at the level he did a few years ago. He's missed 2 out of the last 4 seasons. So Heyer or someone else needs to be ready. Also Thomas has missed time 2/4 years and when he's out it really seems to hurt the line. Badly. And I'd hate to even think what would happen if Samuels went down. So IMO we have got to stop chasing expensive FA's and start building quality depth.

[MTK]

Has anyone considered the other side of this? I mean how dumb are the Bengals right now? They have a golden opportunity to cut ties with CJ and move on before training camp and before he can become even MORE of a distraction. Because you know once camp opens this story is only going to magnify. I don't see anyone offering up a better deal and if they do more power to them.

As the PTI guys just put it, it seems the Bengals are cutting off their nose to spite their face right now.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Has anyone considered the other side of this? I mean how dumb are the Bengals right now? They have a golden opportunity to cut ties with CJ and move on before training camp and before he can become even MORE of a distraction. Because you know once camp opens this story is only going to magnify. I don't see anyone offering up a better deal and if they do more power to them.

As the PTI guys just put it, it seems the Bengals are cutting off their nose to spite their face right now.

I definitely see your point. I think the fear is that if the team lets Chad go, TJ may raise hell too. Supposedly neither receiver is happy. I'll defer to people in the know (i.e., SS).

On the other hand, the inmates have been running the asylum in Cincy and I think Marvin knows he has to get control of the team. Moreover, Chad has never categorically said he would not, under any circumstances, play for the team. I think Marvin and the Bengals F.O. is hoping this is a Briggs situation that will blow over by September.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I definitely see your point. I think the fear is that if the team lets Chad go, TJ may raise hell too. Supposedly neither receiver is happy. I'll defer to people in the know (i.e., SS).

On the other hand, the inmates have been running the asylum in Cincy and I think Marvin knows he has to get control of the team. Moreover, Chad has never categorically said he would not, under any circumstances, play for the team. I think Marvin and the Bengals F.O. is hoping this is a Briggs situation that will blow over by September.

They're taking an awfully big chance if they think it's going to blow over. If this only gets worse for them they'll look like complete idiots come September considering they had a chance to get rid of him for good value.

[KB24]

Ultimately, I'm looking at the "big" picture. Again, I'm not doubting his talents and his abilities. I agree that he's an elite wide receiver. I also agree that he'd help our offense. And I can admit that I'm biased towards him because his touchdown celebrations turn me off. To me, he makes himself look like he did everything himself to get the touchdown instead of it being a TEAM effort (re: Faux Hall of Fame jacket). But, my main problem with this deal is what the Redskins are going to have to give up to acquire him.

Most of the people who want to trade for Chad Johnson most likely are the same people who feel we're just one player away from being a Super Bowl contender. Ever since Snyder took over the team, the attitude has been blast the future and win now. Give up draft picks to get established star players. That's all well and good. But, giving away all those draft picks the way we do comes at the cost of much-needed depth that could be filled by young, hungry players with something to prove. Ultimately, when we have a rash of injuries -- like we did last season -- it's more devastating to the Redskins because there's no proven commodity to plug in that hole and they're forced to scramble to find talent off the scrap heap instead of going to someone whom we've groomed for moments like this and, ultimately, to take over the position(s). This makes EVERY draft pick that much more crucial because the Redskins have a team full of stars with very little in the way of "proven" back-ups. Again, I go back to how well teams like New England, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and the Giants have performed in the draft. The Giants won the Super Bowl with ALL of its 2007 draft picks and the other three teams have seen MOST of their draft picks become solid contributors to their championships.

Giving up two more picks -- potential, long-term solutions -- to win now with someone who, in three years, if not sooner, may start to decline is a price this team cannot afford to pay. What difference will having an elite wide receiver make if the aging, injury-prone offensive line gets nicked again and there are no quality back-ups to pick up the slack? What difference will having an elite wide receiver make if we have no pass rush outside of Andre Carter and a secondary with LOTS of question marks. While Chad Johnson may put up GREAT numbers while he's here and be a model citizen, other than selling more shirts and putting more fannies in seats, he won't address the long-term solutions this team needs to start addressing if it wants to return to the days of being a consistent winner. I also look at the fact that, for all his great numbers, the Bengals haven't been to the playoffs since 2005 while the Skins have appeared in the post-season twice during that time without him. If the Bengals were a legit Super Bowl contender, maybe I'd pull the trigger on this deal.

The Redskins are FULL of holes and they need EVERY draft pick they can get to fix those holes and build for the future. Giving up a first and conditional third is too steep a price for this team.

[htownskinfan]

thank God the bengals SAVED US FROM OURSELVES,I dont want this T.O. wannabe.I cant believe some of the people on this board sticking up for this guy,just blows my mind.He's a cancer just waiting to grow.Certain members of the board have said its not about the money with cj,its about thw winning,then how come every article or newscast I read about cj says its about the money? How come the coach of the bengals himself said it was about the money? this is his qoute
:He's stated without an opportunity to go to a different team and a NEW CONTRACT, he wasn't going to play. I think he's a man of his word and says he's not going to play, so don't play."

Like I said before,if the bengals gave him a new contract he would say I never wanted to leave anyway,I love cincy
I sure as hell hope the bengals stick to their guns and make this asshole sit out a yr,maybe that will make the next guy think twice before trying this shit,f-ck him,f-ck him,f-ck him

[SmootSmack]

Chad Johnson should sit out, watch the Bengals totally fail without him (they may not win with him, but they definitely won't without), Marvin Lewis get deservedly fired and then come back to the Bengals in '09 for a new coach.

[MTK]

Are the Skins the only team with guys over 30?

I'd like to see how they compare with other teams before I slit my wrists.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Are the Skins the only team with guys over 30?

I'd like to see how they compare with other teams before I slit my wrists.

I was looking for a link and ran across the following, which supposedly was published a few weeks back by USA Today. I can't vet its accuracy, but I'll look for the link. Note that it is based on the current rosters of each team, which will obviously change between now and September. Further note that a handful of guys on our team throw the curve (e.g., Kendall, Collins, Daniels). Nevertheless, take it for what it is worth.

Buffalo Bills
O - 26.4
D - 26.6
Total 26.5

Miami Dolphins
O - 26.1
D - 28.5
Total - 27.3

New England Patriots
O - 28.4
D - 29.1
Total - 28.7

New York Jets
O - 29
D - 27.1
Total - 28

Baltimore Ravens
O - 27.6
D - 29
Total - 28.3

Cincinnati Bengals
O - 29.2
D - 26
Total - 27.6

Cleveland Browns
O - 26.5
D - 26.8
Total - 26.6

Pittsburgh Steelers
O - 27.2
D - 29.2
Total - 28.2

Houston Texans
O - 27.7
D - 25.6
Total - 26.7

Indianapolis Colts
O - 28.7
D - 26.3
Total - 27.5

Jacksonville Jaguars
O - 28.2
D - 28.3
Total - 28.2

Tennessee Titans
O - 27.7
D - 27.9
Total - 27.8

Denver Broncos
O - 28
D - 27.9
Total 28

Kansas City Chiefs
O - 26.6
D - 27.5
Total - 27.1

Oakland Raiders
O - 26.5
D - 27
Total - 26.8

San Diego Chargers
O - 25.1
D - 27
Total - 26

Dallas Cowboys
O - 28.9
D - 27.9
Total - 28.4

New York Giants
O - 28.5
D - 28.3
Total - 28.4

Philadelphia Eagles
O - 28.8
D - 25.9
Total - 27.4

Washington Redskins
O - 30
D - 28.6
Total - 29.3

Chicago Bears
O - 29.3
D - 24.5
Total - 26.9

Detroit Lions
O - 28.5
D - 27.7
Total - 28.1

Green Bay Packers
O - 27.1
D - 27.5
Total - 27.3

Minnesota Vikings
O - 26.9
D - 27.9
Total - 27.4

Atlanta Falcons
O - 28.7
D - 27.3
Total - 28

Carolina Panthers
O - 27.8
D - 26.3
Total - 27

New Orleans Saints
O - 28.5
D - 28.5
Total - 28.5

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
O - 29
D - 28.4
Total - 28.7

Arizona Cardinals
O - 26.9
D - 27.3
Total - 27.1

San Francisco 49ers
O - 27.2
D - 28
Total - 27.6

Seattle Seahawks
O - 29.1
D - 27
Total - 28

St. Louis Rams
O - 28
D - 28
Total - 28

Youngest O
1. San Diego
2. Miami
3. Buffalo
4t.Oakland
4t. Cleveland
6. Kansas City
7t. Minnesota
7t. Arizona
9. Green Bay
10t. San Francisco
10t. Pittsburgh
12. Baltimore
13t. Houston
13t. Tennessee
15. Carolina
16t. St. Louis
16t. Denver
18. Jacksonville
19. New England
20t. Detroit Lions
20t. New Orleans
20t. Giants
23t. Atlanta
23t. Indianapolis
25. Philadelphia
26. Dallas
27t. Jets
27t. Tampa Bay
29. Seattle
30. Cincinnati
31. Chicago
32. Washington

Youngest D
1. Chicago
2. Houston
3. Philadelphia
4. Cincinnati
5t. Carolina
5t. Indianapolis
7. Buffalo
8. Cleveland
9t. Oakland
9t. Seattle
9t. San Diego
12. Jets
13t. Atlanta
13t. Arizona
15t. Kansas City
15t. Green Bay
17. Detroit
18t. Denver
18t. Minnesota
18t. Tennessee
18t. Dallas
22t. St. Louis
22t. San Francisco
24t. Jacksonville
24t. Giants
26. Tampa Bay
27t. Miami
27t. New Orleans
29. Washington
30. Baltimore
31. New England
32. Pittsburgh

Total
1. San Diego
2. Buffalo
3. Cleveland
4. Houston
5. Oakland
6. Chicago
7. Carolina
8t. Kansas City
8t. Arizona
10t. Miami
10t. Green Bay
12t. Minnesota
12t. Philadelphia
14. Indianapolis
15t. Cincinnati
15t. San Francisco
17. Tennessee
18t. St. Louis
18t. Atlanta
18t. Jets
18t. Denver
18t. Seattle
23. Detroit
24t. Jacksonville
24t. Pittsburgh
26. Baltimore
27t. Giants
27t. Dallas
29. New Orleans
30t. Tampa Bay
30t. New England
32. Washington

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Are the Skins the only team with guys over 30?

I'd like to see how they compare with other teams before I slit my wrists.

What gets me is that when we are discussing players like Jason Campbell, whom we love, the main point is, "he is still young" and "we should give him a chance to grow", when he will be 27 at the end of the year but when we discuss players who's only a few year older who we may not want, like Chad Johnson, the age suddenly becomes a problem .

It is like a NFL player only have three years between growing and becoming too old to play at certain level.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

What gets me is that when we are discussing players like Jason Campbell, whom we love, the main point is, "he is still young" and "we should give him a chance to grow", when he will be 27 at the end of the year but when we discuss players who's only a few year older who we may not want, like Chad Johnson, the age suddenly becomes a problem .

It is like a NFL player only have three years between growing and becoming too old to play at certain level.

Campbell plays Quarterback. They take the longest to develop, and are also useful into their late thirties.

Chad Johnson does not play Quarterback.

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Campbell plays Quarterback. They take the longest to develop, and are also useful into their late thirties.

Chad Johnson does not play Quarterback.

see my point?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

What gets me is that when we are discussing players like Jason Campbell, whom we love, the main point is, "he is still young" and "we should give him a chance to grow", when he will be 27 at the end of the year but when we discuss players who's only a few year older who we may not want, like Chad Johnson, the age suddenly becomes a problem .

It is like a NFL player only have three years between growing and becoming too old to play at certain level.

IMO, there is a world of a difference between a 26 year old and a 30 year old. Four years is an awful long time in terms of a football career. Four years ago: Spurrier had just left the building, Trung Canidate was on the roster, Patrick Ramsey was competing for the starting QB role, Bruce Smith had just broken the sack record, Sean Taylor wasn't on the roster, Laron Landry was a freshman in college and Jon Jansen was one of the most dominant right tackles in football. The following players were coming off of Pro Bowl berths: Steve McNair, Stephen Davis, Priest Holmes, Fred Beasley, Keenan McCardell, Dexter Coakley, Peter Boulware, Troy Vincent, Jerry Azumah, Brock Marion, Aeneas Williams, Jerome Woods. A lot happens in 4 years.

At 26, a wideout is on the cusp of entering the prime of his career. At 30, a wideout is about to see his skills erode. Would you buy a stock if you knew it's value would only decrease over the coming years? If not, why would you trade for a player who is at the apex of his career and is only going to decrease in value?