Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)

[SirClintonPortis]

Let's lay some smackdown to the injury bug for ****ing with us again this year.

[mredskins]

For those calling for MS's head here is a great read about Bill Walsh and what he had to start with when he first got to SF.

Most people think Jim Plunkett, when he failed with the Patriots after being the first overall pick in the draft in 1971 NFL Draft, was dealt to Oakland. Not so. New England traded him to San Francisco first, and after two years with the Niners, he was released and got picked up by Oakland. The Raiders won two Super Bowls with Plunkett at the helm.

The Carson Palmer trade this week got me to thinking about the Plunkett deal, and about the subsequent deal the Niners made for O.J. Simpson two years later. And it caused me to reassess my opinion of Bill Walsh, and to think of him as greater than I'd thought of him over the years -- and my opinion of him already couldn't have been much better. Let me explain.

Thirty-five years ago, front offices in the NFL obviously had much different views of draft choices than they do today. In 1976, Plunkett was a 28-year-old quarterback who had bottomed out in New England. Still, San Francisco traded quarterback Tom Owen, two first-round picks in 1976, and first- and second-round picks in 1977 for Plunkett ... and released him after he went 11-15 in two seasons.

If it's possible, the Niners made an even worse trade for the battered and used-up O.J. Simpson in 1978, even after the Plunkett trade stripped them of the chance to pick four top prospects. For Simpson -- who would be 31 when he took the field for the Niners, and shot after a career on the artificial turf in Buffalo -- the Niners dealt second- and third-round picks in 1978, first- and fourth-round picks in 1979, and a second-round pick in 1980. Simpson wound up struggling behind a bad line and gaining just 1,018 yards in two years before retiring.

So for two players who essentially helped the franchise regress, this is what San Francisco paid in a four-year period:

First-round picks: 4. Second-round picks: 3. Third-round picks: 1. Fourth-round picks: 1.

Walsh arrived in 1979; he must have been in agony seeing the first overall pick go off to Buffalo because of the mind-blowingly expensive trade for Simpson. (The Bills had their own problems in the front office; linebacker Tom Cousineau was Buffalo's pick, with that top pick acquired from San Francisco, and he never played a snap for the Bills. He signed in Canada. He later had his rights dealt for the pick that became Jim Kelly, so it wasn't a total washout for Buffalo.) Forced to improvise for a quarterback on draft day 1979, Walsh picked Joe Montana in the third round. Finally back with a full load of picks in 1981, Walsh took Ronnie Lott in the first round. I find it amazing how quickly Walsh restocked a bad team and made it a champion.


I would say lets hang in there with MS for a little longer guy has us on the right track.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by mredskins

For those calling for MS's head here is a great read about Bill Walsh and what he had to start with when he first got to SF.

Most people think Jim Plunkett, when he failed with the Patriots after being the first overall pick in the draft in 1971 NFL Draft, was dealt to Oakland. Not so. New England traded him to San Francisco first, and after two years with the Niners, he was released and got picked up by Oakland. The Raiders won two Super Bowls with Plunkett at the helm.

The Carson Palmer trade this week got me to thinking about the Plunkett deal, and about the subsequent deal the Niners made for O.J. Simpson two years later. And it caused me to reassess my opinion of Bill Walsh, and to think of him as greater than I'd thought of him over the years -- and my opinion of him already couldn't have been much better. Let me explain.

Thirty-five years ago, front offices in the NFL obviously had much different views of draft choices than they do today. In 1976, Plunkett was a 28-year-old quarterback who had bottomed out in New England. Still, San Francisco traded quarterback Tom Owen, two first-round picks in 1976, and first- and second-round picks in 1977 for Plunkett ... and released him after he went 11-15 in two seasons.

If it's possible, the Niners made an even worse trade for the battered and used-up O.J. Simpson in 1978, even after the Plunkett trade stripped them of the chance to pick four top prospects. For Simpson -- who would be 31 when he took the field for the Niners, and shot after a career on the artificial turf in Buffalo -- the Niners dealt second- and third-round picks in 1978, first- and fourth-round picks in 1979, and a second-round pick in 1980. Simpson wound up struggling behind a bad line and gaining just 1,018 yards in two years before retiring.

So for two players who essentially helped the franchise regress, this is what San Francisco paid in a four-year period:

First-round picks: 4. Second-round picks: 3. Third-round picks: 1. Fourth-round picks: 1.

Walsh arrived in 1979; he must have been in agony seeing the first overall pick go off to Buffalo because of the mind-blowingly expensive trade for Simpson. (The Bills had their own problems in the front office; linebacker Tom Cousineau was Buffalo's pick, with that top pick acquired from San Francisco, and he never played a snap for the Bills. He signed in Canada. He later had his rights dealt for the pick that became Jim Kelly, so it wasn't a total washout for Buffalo.) Forced to improvise for a quarterback on draft day 1979, Walsh picked Joe Montana in the third round. Finally back with a full load of picks in 1981, Walsh took Ronnie Lott in the first round. I find it amazing how quickly Walsh restocked a bad team and made it a champion.


I would say lets hang in there with MS for a little longer guy has us on the right track.

Right.The Redskins have made many shrewd moves this year. I am inclined to believe Allen is more than just a "negotiate the deals" guy and has some say on whether to pull the trigger on a guy or not. Either way, this last season is just a bit out of the ordinary for Mike Shanahan, and in good way, so I hope he keeps it up.

Franchises can actually recover quite quickly from bust move as long as they have the resources to do so(draft picks) and their scouting is not complete ass so they can hit on those picks, but if they do, watch out.

Drafted JaMarcus Russell? Just draft McFadden the next year, endure him playing soft for a couple years, and then after fixing his "head", watch the beast tear it up in the league.

[skinsfan69]

I'd like to lay some smack down to the NFL for the kick off rule. Did Banks even get one return yeserday? That rule has basically taken away our most explosive player. Might as well have just placed the ball on the 20 yesterday and not even wasted the time kicking it. Such a HORRIBLE rule. One of the annoucers said that touch backs were up 300%.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Let's lay some smackdown to the injury bug for ****ing with us again this year.

....as was pointed out to me in the begining of the year ,all teams have them .

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Giantone

....as was pointed out to me in the begining of the year ,all teams have them .

Quite aware of having to deal with it. But, I can feel as angry as I want about it even if I have to deal with it.

[Chico23231]

Haslett needs to run "how to recover fumbles" drill. How many balls have been on the ground this year we havent recovered?

I mean damn, forget Carlos' f*cking hands in years past, this has been a bigger disappointment.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Whole team today was poor IMO except beck TH and Davis

Davis? If you ask me Davis was the turning point in the game. It was either 2nd or 3rd down in the 3rd and our O was starting to make some plays.Beck hit Davis going across the middle for what sould have been a first down but Davis drops the ball. We have to punt and we never had any momentum after that. I know that one drop did not cause us the win but its a play you have to make.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by calia

I disagree about Davis. I realize he had a few good catches and a bunch of yards, but he dropped what would have been a key third down conversion that would have extended a drive when it was still a close game. We ended up giving Carolina the ball back, and they stuck it to us. It was a pass that bounced off of his hands and totally killed our momentum. No excuses. A good game isn't good enough -- you want to be elite, dude? Catch the passes that hit you in the hands EVERY TIME.

Furious about the whole effort. By the way, I disagree about Wilson. I thought he had very good positioning on Steve Smith most of the game, but between Cam's really well placed passes and Smith's crazy talent, it's just hard to stop, The bigger problem, in my view, is that Cam had all freaking day. All day. We had 4 sacks in the first half and then the pressure just stopped, and he picked us apart.

So frustrated.

I was going to post the same. Steve Smith is still a great WR. Wilson got his hand up w/in an inch of the ball to try & make the play at least 3 times. That's good coverage, but Cam & Smith executed those plays to perfection. The one on 3rd & 17 was sick for a rookie QB, that out is a tough throw.

Sadly, I would even say that Wilson outperformed our 2 best players on D; Rak & Landry.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Your definitions of building and of future are a lot looser than mine. I'm sure were doing something that justifies the last two weeks. Right?

My definition of building for the future involves a miracle whether through natural causes or an accident involving foul play where Synder is no longer the owner of the Redskins. The sooner this happens the better so we no longer have to choose between discussing whose fault this loss was and whether we are better off with Beck vs Rex.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

My definition of building for the future involves a miracle whether through natural causes or an accident involving foul play where Synder is no longer the owner of the Redskins. The sooner this happens the better so we no longer have to choose between discussing whose fault this loss was and whether we are better off with Beck vs Rex.

So your blaming Dan for us having Beck and Rex as our QB's.

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'd like to lay some smack down to the NFL for the kick off rule. Did Banks even get one return yeserday? That rule has basically taken away our most explosive player. Might as well have just placed the ball on the 20 yesterday and not even wasted the time kicking it. Such a HORRIBLE rule. One of the annoucers said that touch backs were up 300%.

LOL....how do you figure?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'd like to lay some smack down to the NFL for the kick off rule. Did Banks even get one return yeserday? That rule has basically taken away our most explosive player. Might as well have just placed the ball on the 20 yesterday and not even wasted the time kicking it. Such a HORRIBLE rule. One of the annoucers said that touch backs were up 300%.

Washington Redskins vs. Carolina Panthers - Box Score - October 23, 2011 - ESPN


Yes he had one KR and one PR. Just face it. The guy hasn't done anything this year and is a waste of a roster spot at this point. The week prior he was taking kicks 9 yards deep in the end zone and not even making it to the 15 yard line. He's had plenty of opportunity and nothing to show for it at this point.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

LOL....how do you figure?

Well based on what he did last year. He needs more chances. But yeah, he hasn't done a damn thing this year but the rule isn't helping his cause either.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Let's lay some smackdown to the injury bug for ****ing with us again this year.

Well we were healthy against the Rams and Cards and barely won those game against two bad teams. That says a lot, doesn't it? Every team has guys hurt. Houston's two best players are out and they layed 41 on the road against Tenn. Dallas had Felix Jones out and the rookie back up rushed for 253. We need to get these young guys on the field cause even when we were 100% healthy we still were kinda average and just got by beating two bad teams.