Post Dumpster Fire...er Skins vs. Saints Thread

[Randall Nestor]

We may want to start thinking about players we are not planning on resigning or are on the back end of their careers and still have good trade value and trade them to teams in need and bring in hungry guys with the draft picks. (example- Norman to a team in desperate need of a CB)

[htownskinfan]

This should get you cut,not the highest paid corner in the league!

For the season, Norman has been targeted 16 times in four games, allowing 12 receptions, 17.9 yards per catch, three touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 156.3 passer rating.

Norman needs to stfu and play a hell of a lot better

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

This should get you cut,not the highest paid corner in the league!

For the season, Norman has been targeted 16 times in four games, allowing 12 receptions, 17.9 yards per catch, three touchdowns, zero interceptions and a 156.3 passer rating.

Norman needs to stfu and play a hell of a lot better

The Redskins are obviously not getting what they want out of their investment.

[SFREDSKIN]

John Keim-Some observations/opinions from the Washington Redskinsloss to the New Orleans Saints:

1. That was one of the uglier losses I’ve covered and not just because of the score. The Redskins were outclassed in every manner Monday night and that’s a bad look moving forward. They can recover from this. I wrote in one story how they lost 44-16 to Carolina in 2015 yet still won the NFC East (yes, at 9-7). The division, right now, does not look tough. But it’s not about winning division titles at 9-7; it’s about building something capable of more and in year five under Jay Gruden the Redskins, at season’s end, need to be more than just flirting with .500. Based on the looks of people in the organization, this one hit them hard. You can excuse the Colts loss as a bad day. But to do this two games later? What does that signal?

2. But it seems like every week with this team is greeted by extremes. Skins win and: maybe, just maybe, they finally start a streak; maybe they can contend for the division! Skins lose and: Fire everyone! The quarterback is trash! It’s hard for me to operate that way. As a fan of teams? I get it. But as a reporter, it’s not that simple. I do see problems – I was worried about the secondary going into the bye week, for example – and I see issues in the organization. I always go back to this: Good organizations win consistently. I also see some good things here. Hence: .500. There’s a reason I picked them to be 8-8. They must do better. Some of those answers will come after the season. They can beat Carolina this week and we’ll all be right back on their rollercoaster ride. They always do enough to make you think they’re close. And then enough to make you think they won’t get there.

3. Too much gets made out of ping pong tables and DJ’s at practice. Every team plays music at practice. A lot of teams have ping pong tables in the locker room. In fact, I listened to a Drew Brees interview from last week and heard in the background: a ping pong game taking place. I saw Tom Brady dancing at a practice last week. In fact, a few players told me a year or two ago how the extras in the locker room actually brought guys closer together. One player told me how he and Dustin Hopkins became friends simply because Hopkins one time danced at practice. (There’s a time and place for it, no doubt. During stretching is one thing; during practice is another). When Joe Gibbs coached here the first time, he'd talk about players smelling like beer in the huddle at training camp. In his second stint, Clinton Portis dressed up in his costumes. Players had Dominoes tournaments in the locker room. Perspective, people.

4. In other words, don’t get caught up in optics and focus on what matters. It’s not the music at practice. However, you should be upset constant blown coverage. That’s not always communication. It’s more often about film preparation and study. When a guy keeps blowing coverages or calls, you can point to that more often than not. If Josh Norman or anyone else keeps making those mistakes, they have to check that aspect of their game first. Period. You can remove ping pong tables and music and if guys aren’t handling their business outside of Redskins Park? Guess what? Their record is the same. If you say hold guys more accountable? I’m with you. The best teams I’ve seen are when teammates hold one another accountable but yes coaches can do it too.
I saw what DeAngelo Hall said on 106.7 The Fan Tuesday morning about Norman: "Josh, I think, is in love with being a celebrity right now and not necessarily being a football player."

5. I know Hall well enough to know this couldn’t be easy for him to say, but in the end the guy always goes back to what he feels is the truth. It’s why he’d make some waves when Jim Haslett was the defensive coordinator. It’s why he’ll be a good analyst. This is Hall’s opinion, but I’ve heard this from a former teammate as well. Take it for what it’s worth. Every player must live his life the way he sees fit and that’s what Norman is doing. But others will offer opinions after games he’s had. By the way, I remember Darrell Green once telling me about a talk he had with Marty Schottenheimer when he was hired. He talked to his new coach about his foundation and some other off-field stuff. Later he realized that all Schottenheimer wanted to know was if he still wanted to play.

6. I like what Jonathan Allen had to say after the game. He’s a reserved guy who comes across like a 10-year vet. He’s respectful and dignified. But he was dropping cuss words to reporters (not at!) and, you can debate what that means, but for me it showed a guy tired of what’s happening. That’s why he was the one getting on Montae Nicholson at the end of his series following the penalty (Allen says he was trying to fire him back up. That’s fine.). The Redskins need more guys like him. I’ll throw Quinton Dunbar in there too and I know some who have played with D.J. Swearinger would include him as well. Dunbar and Swearinger were ticked off after the game; Dunbar sat at his stall in full uniform longer than just about anyone.

7. Fans used to knock linebacker Will Compton all the time, pointing to what he couldn’t do. That’s fine. But they need more players like him, guys who study the hell out of the game and if they get beat, it’s not because they’re unprepared. They just lost. When you get beat because you’re unprepared you’re simply not handling your business. But the more students of the game you have, the better off you’ll be. Talent is necessary, too. But mindset matters. I always liked talking to Will Blackmon when he was here because it was clear how well he knew the game and how to be a pro. I learn from talking to guys like that about what’s important. That 2015 team was not as talented as this one, top to bottom. But they maxed out.
Alex Smith was terrible and there’s no way to sugarcoat his outing. He’s a veteran who did not look comfortable all night, whether rattled by the rush or because of what they were asking him to do or both. I still think they’re figuring out exactly what makes him comfortable; coaches must find a way to do this for their quarterbacks. But I also think he’s someone who, without a doubt, works best with a strong run game. I felt they were smart in trading for him and still think he can help them. They wanted to move on from Kirk Cousins and he wanted to move on from them. Their choice with Cousins was made after 2015, not last season. So this isn’t about that. Cousins landed in a great spot for him; I thought the Redskins found someone who was a better fit all-around for them. That doesn’t mean he’s always better than Cousins, but more from his locker room presence to being signed long-term, etc.

8. That said, he’s played two games in which he just offered nothing. It’s hard to pin the Colts loss on him; I still say the lack of run game success shocked me considering the soft cover-2 zone Indy was playing. That was on the line, but also on the coaches. But in two other games, with a consistent rushing attack, Smith was good.

9. The Redskins need Smith to work out. That’s not just about this year, either. They’ve made him uncuttable for the next three years (and a hard cut in the fourth). Quarterbacks offer hope and can sell tickets and when you look around the league at some of the young quarterback play… well, they need Smith to play well. It’s never all on one player but the Redskins just haven’t played well when falling behind in their losses. It’s too early, other than for hot takes, to accurately say what he is here. But it is a work in progress. And I’ll say this: After the game, someone who was at practices last week said Smith did not have a good week. It carried over.

10. Keep this in mind with Washington: In wins over Arizona and Green Bay the Redskins looked really good (though I do think vs. the Packers there were some fortunate drops in key spots. That doesn’t mean the Redskins wouldn’t have won; they moved the ball at will in the first half. But it’s to point out there were some issues in the secondary that popped up Monday night). Yes, the Cardinals are bad but the Redskins dominated them. So they’ve shown signs of being able to play well, but also of not playing well. I can tell you that some who know the players and the organization well weren’t surprised one bit that Washington lost Monday. Their take: They knew they’d take that Green Bay win and live too long off that and wouldn’t be as focused after the bye. Just the way it is folks.

[KI Skins Fan]

Of the views John Keim expressed that were posted by SFREDSKINS, this is what stood out for me.

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

The division, right now, does not look tough. But it’s not about winning division titles at 9-7; it’s about building something capable of more and in year five under Jay Gruden the Redskins, at season’s end, need to be more than just flirting with .500. Based on the looks of people in the organization, this one hit them hard. They always do enough to make you think they’re close. And then enough to make you think they won’t get there.

Thoroughly average Head Coach.

You should be upset constant blown coverage. That’s not always communication. It’s more often about film preparation and study. When a guy keeps blowing coverages or calls, you can point to that more often than not. If Josh Norman or anyone else keeps making those mistakes, they have to check that aspect of their game first. Period.

Poor work ethic.

I can tell you that some who know the players and the organization well weren’t surprised one bit that Washington lost Monday. Their take: They knew they’d take that Green Bay win and live too long off that and wouldn’t be as focused after the bye. Just the way it is folks.

Lack of leadership.

[WillH]

Ok. I honestly feel as pessimistic as everyone else, but I've been thinking about some contributing factors to this absolute embarrassment of a game. Not that coaching, execution, discipline, and effort and quite possibly talent aren't emphatically the biggest factors at hand, but there are other factors that are worth considering perhaps.

First, most obviously, it was Brees' night. Everyone in that stadium knew that.

Yes the Redskins knew that, and if you're a team with a good culture that should not have had a significant impact. I honestly can't tell if it did, but I can't imagine it not especially how things played out.

I'm not saying this was a home job. Even if I can point to several calls that seemed questionable, I could say that about any game really. That said, some of the calls suggested to me that their focus on what type of penalties they were looking for may at least have been subconsciously swayed.

The fans knew it; that crowd was a factor from the beginning. They weren't just loud, but they were emotional. This team, that city, and Brees have a special relationship.

The Saints knew it. They were all playing as one for a significant moment that meant more than just a record. In a league where there is not a significant gap in talent, special moments can tip the scales.

Brees knew it. This man is one of the few greatest QBs of his generation and somewhere on the list all time. He was not just playing for the record. He was playing for his team and his city. When a player like Brees is inspired their level of play is elevated beyond their typical excellence. It didn't matter who he was playing, this was going to be a big night for him.

I'm not excusing anyone, the team fell apart, Alex looked terrible, and Jay is on thin ice, but this was a much more difficult task than I really appreciated going into the game. It is possible that this is a really bad growing pain game exacerbated by a collision course with circumstance. Right now it feels like the wheels are coming off. This team needs to get themselves right real quick. Jonathan Allen is encouraging. The next couple weeks will tell us, but Jay Grudens job will depend on it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[MTK]

Originally Posted by WillH

Ok. I honestly feel as pessimistic as everyone else, but I've been thinking about some contributing factors to this absolute embarrassment of a game. Not that coaching, execution, discipline, and effort and quite possibly talent aren't emphatically the biggest factors at hand, but there are other factors that are worth considering perhaps.

First, most obviously, it was Brees' night. Everyone in that stadium knew that.

Yes the Redskins knew that, and if you're a team with a good culture that should not have had a significant impact. I honestly can't tell if it did, but I can't imagine it not especially how things played out.

I'm not saying this was a home job. Even if I can point to several calls that seemed questionable, I could say that about any game really. That said, some of the calls suggested to me that their focus on what type of penalties they were looking for may at least have been subconsciously swayed.

The fans knew it; that crowd was a factor from the beginning. They weren't just loud, but they were emotional. This team, that city, and Brees have a special relationship.

The Saints knew it. They were all playing as one for a significant moment that meant more than just a record. In a league where there is not a significant gap in talent, special moments can tip the scales.

Brees knew it. This man is one of the few greatest QBs of his generation and somewhere on the list all time. He was not just playing for the record. He was playing for his team and his city. When a player like Brees is inspired their level of play is elevated beyond their typical excellence. It didn't matter who he was playing, this was going to be a big night for him.

I'm not excusing anyone, the team fell apart, Alex looked terrible, and Jay is on thin ice, but this was a much more difficult task than I really appreciated going into the game. It is possible that this is a really bad growing pain game exacerbated by a collision course with circumstance. Right now it feels like the wheels are coming off. This team needs to get themselves right real quick. Jonathan Allen is encouraging. The next couple weeks will tell us, but Jay Grudens job will depend on it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Aka they ran into a buzz saw

[WillH]

Originally Posted by MTK

Aka they ran into a buzz saw

Succinctly put. I could use some work on that.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[skinsfaninok]

Leader in Yards per reception?

Adrian Peterson 19.4 YPC.

That is a big fucking problem

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Leader in Yards per reception?



Adrian Peterson 19.4 YPC.



That is a big fucking problem

That is unbelievable. Disgusting and unbelievable.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by punch it in

That is unbelievable. Disgusting and unbelievable.

Saw the passing tape from last night, Alex was as bad as we saw on TV. The pass to peterson that almost killed his knees, he had 4 secs to throw or run and he checked it down. On the INT, he moved away from pressure and made a play you would expect a rookie to make, that INT was as bad as Kirk's infamous kneel down.

He has to be better going forward or we won't win many more games.

[BigSKINBauer]

Easy to blame the coaches in blowout losses but i never expected to see so many blown coverages by the DBs and the horrendous under-thrown/overthrown balls by Smith.

No amount of coaching could have made up for the player mistakes on the top 5 most important plays/mistakes.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Easy to blame the coaches in blowout losses but i never expected to see so many blown coverages by the DBs and the horrendous under-thrown/overthrown balls by Smith.

No amount of coaching could have made up for the player mistakes on the top 5 most important plays/mistakes.

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-...n-and-redskins

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Easy to blame the coaches in blowout losses but i never expected to see so many blown coverages by the DBs and the horrendous under-thrown/overthrown balls by Smith.

No amount of coaching could have made up for the player mistakes on the top 5 most important plays/mistakes.

I agree: when you're getting paid what they're getting paid, they shouldn't need to be fired up by their boss to know their coverage assignments or not throw a terrible INT at a terrible time...

BUT

When pretty much the whole team plays great one week and awful the next one, you gotta question the way they are prepared. And I'm not just talking game plan.
I'm talking about creating a team, firing this locker room up.
Football is a team sport, you need that magical spark if you're going to achieve great things.
The Eagle didn't have the best roster in the league last year, but they cared about and believed in each other. Just look at how they are starting this season: same players, minus the magical thing = not the same team.

From the article breaking down the secondary's miscues:

The Redskins’ issues go beyond the secondary. At some point, when you’re stuck in the same spot for several years, it speaks to larger talking points. Swearinger touched on a theme after the game, saying how he’s “preaching, trying to change the culture.” And that “coaches and players have to have the same mindset that we’ve got a championship team.”

“We go to practice, there shouldn’t be any joking around,” he said. “Shouldn’t be any more joking around from nobody. We got blew out. Shouldn’t have any more playing or joking around. When it comes to work tomorrow, we need to be all business.”

[MTK]

It took Cousins a while to get going in this offense when he became the starter. The “you like that” game was week 7 in 2015, so these things can take some time.

Plenty of big play chances were there for Smith, he just wasn’t seeing things quickly enough.