Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by irish

Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.

the sky being blue is nice....but it's still green (sorry couldn't resist)

I would argue that neither QB "took" his team to the playoffs. They didn't lose games for the most part, but when asked to put the team on their shoulders, neither could get it done. Not a slight to either QB, because I think both will be good, but Flacco & Ryan are by no means ahead of JC in development, not even close.

JC was asked to carry the team late in the season, behind a poor OL (and yes that makes a HUGE difference) and unfortunately he's not John Elway or Dan Marino. If you watched the games or look at the numbers, the rushing numbers along with passing numbers declined in the second half of the season, due to injury/poor OL play.

As far as talent at skill positions I would take the 2008 versions of Roddy White, Jenkins and Finneran or Mason, Clayton, whoever the Ravens third WR is, over Moss, ARE and our third (Thomas, Thrash). The OLs of both the Falcons and Ravens are tops in the league, ours is bottom third.

Falcons: #2 in rushing attempts, # 2 in Yds, # 3 in TDs, # 10 in Yds/Att.

Ravens: # 1 in Rush Att, # 4 in Yds, # 7 TDs, # 24 in Yds/Att.

These numbers show the superiority of the OLs. They also show coaches who are trying to protect young QBs with a solid run game.

After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance.

The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

the sky being blue is nice....but it's still green (sorry couldn't resist)

I would argue that neither QB "took" his team to the playoffs. They didn't lose games for the most part, but when asked to put the team on their shoulders, neither could get it done. Not a slight to either QB, because I think both will be good, but Flacco & Ryan are by no means ahead of JC in development, not even close.

JC was asked to carry the team late in the season, behind a poor OL (and yes that makes a HUGE difference) and unfortunately he's not John Elway or Dan Marino. If you watched the games or look at the numbers, the rushing numbers along with passing numbers declined in the second half of the season, due to injury/poor OL play.

As far as talent at skill positions I would take the 2008 versions of Roddy White, Jenkins and Finneran or Mason, Clayton, whoever the Ravens third WR is, over Moss, ARE and our third (Thomas, Thrash). The OLs of both the Falcons and Ravens are tops in the league, ours is bottom third.

Falcons: #2 in rushing attempts, # 2 in Yds, # 3 in TDs, # 10 in Yds/Att.

Ravens: # 1 in Rush Att, # 4 in Yds, # 7 TDs, # 24 in Yds/Att.

These numbers show the superiority of the OLs. They also show coaches who are trying to protect young QBs with a solid run game.

After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance.

The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009.

The sky is often green in LA.

I can only chuckle that anyone would think JC is ahead of Flacco or Ryan. If nothing else having playoff experience puts F & R ahead of JC. Like I said in another post, CP's production went down in the second half because the Skins were often playing from behind and had to pass which put more on to JC that he didnt have to do in the first half when his numbers were good (because he didnt have to do more than flip short passes). The O line is very important but not critical to success as Pgh didnt have a very good O line this year but what they did have was a QB that could make/extend plays to win games. The Skins dont have that in their QB.

JC did improve a lot during this past offseason (there wasnt really anywhere to go but up but he did improve) and at his current rate the Skins will have a decent QB in 5 or 6 years.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by irish

Like I said in another post, CP's production went down in the second half because the Skins were often playing from behind and had to pass which put more on to JC that he didnt have to do in the first half when his numbers were good (because he didnt have to do more than flip short passes).

Just because you said it doesn't make it right. The Redskins abandoned the run when it wasn't successful, not because they were "playing from behind" and needed to pass. They were only out of (down by more than 8 pts) in the following games: Steelers, Giants, Ravens. They weren't generating anything with the run game in any of these three games.

The O line is very important but not critical to success as Pgh didnt have a very good O line this year but what they did have was a QB that could make/extend plays to win games. The Skins dont have that in their QB.

Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success.

JC did improve a lot during this past offseason (there wasnt really anywhere to go but up but he did improve) and at his current rate the Skins will have a decent QB in 5 or 6 years.

If JC improves his QB rating another 7 points (as he did from 07 to 08) it will put him as a top ten QB in the NFL.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Just because you said it doesn't make it right. The Redskins abandoned the run when it wasn't successful, not because they were "playing from behind" and needed to pass. They were only out of (down by more than 8 pts) in the following games: Steelers, Giants, Ravens. They weren't generating anything with the run game in any of these three games.


Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success.



If JC improves his QB rating another 7 points (as he did from 07 to 08) it will put him as a top ten QB in the NFL.

When a team only averages 16.6 ppg being down by 8 means the game is over. Being down by something less means you have to pass. They did and CP didnt run because of it. Spin it how you want but they didnt run as much because they were down and needed to pass more.

The Pgh D helped them be successful and did take pressure off the O. That said the O did avg 21.7ppg which isnt the best but by no means down in Skins territory. Why do you think they had a run drop off? They lost Fanneca and the line was just not that good. They really went the entire season without much of a running game (due to injuries) but they had a QB who could make plays and win games. The Skins didnt.

Stats do lie and I'll bet you my next paycheck that if you polled all NFL GMs and coaches asking them if they'd rather have BR or JC I am certain 99% take BR. JC has been in the NFL for 4 years now and we are still talking ifs. I think after one more year of excuses the Skins will decide to go in a different direction with the QB position.

[SmootSmack]

It's kind of funny how we've gone 12 pages here talking about Jason Campbell and his future, or lack thereof possibly, with the Redskins when a)we have another multiple page thread going on that right now, and b)the original intent of this thread was not to discuss Leftwich as a replacement for Campbell but as one for Todd Collins.

So, in an attempt to bring us back home so to speak, I am going to modify the thread title and ask the following question:

Are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Interesting choice for a modified title. In response, i would say, i'm very uncomfortable with our QB situation with Campbell under center. if he goes down, i dont think we could realy ask for a better situation at backup. We arent going to find a #1 caliber QB to sit behind Campbell. Byron Leftwich would never come to washington to be a backup and i cant think of any other starting-caliber QBs who would either. Todd Collins is about as good a stop-gap as we could ask for. If Campbell goes down and is out for an extended period of time, and our offensive line is upgraded in 2009, id much rather see Brennan go in, though. If our line is bad, no way would i give him a trial by fire.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's kind of funny how we've gone 12 pages here talking about Jason Campbell and his future, or lack thereof possibly, with the Redskins when a)we have another multiple page thread going on that right now, and b)the original intent of this thread was not to discuss Leftwich as a replacement for Campbell but as one for Todd Collins.

So, in an attempt to bring us back home so to speak, I am going to modify the thread title and ask the following question:

Are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down?

NO. Colt is nowhere close to ready to lead a football team. Todd Collins is an old statue who, save for a 4 game stretch, has done next to nothing his entire career except hold a clipboard. During his 4 game tear (his lone career highlight), he was running an offense he studied for like 7 years in KC. He looked pretty bad, and pretty lost in Zorn's offense during training camp/preseason last year. Also, should Collins need to play, I fear for his life given the current state of our offensive line.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

NO. Colt is nowhere close to ready to lead a football team. Todd Collins is an old statue who, save for a 4 game stretch, has done next to nothing his entire career except hold a clipboard. Also, should Collins need to play, I fear for his life given the current state of our offensive line.

So what do we do? What can we do?

[44ever]

I'm comfortable handing it over to Colt. I don't think he needs 5 years watching Campbell play before he's ready. If guys like Flacco can do it, I see no reason why Colt couldn't handle it. This is all under the assumption JC goes down of coarse. I think he's ready.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So what do we do? What can we do?

Well, we can't do much. The UFA QB's aren't too impressive (aside from Cassel and Warner), and even if they were I don't think we would or should go after any of them. There are a few guys out there who would upgrade the backup situation (Losman, K.Collins, JT O'Sullivan) but Todd Collins is under contract, and if we cut or traded Brennan, the Colt Cult would burn down Redskins Park.

If the question is "are we comfortable with our current QB situation if Campbell goes down," then my answer is NO based on 2008. Now, come training camp, Brennan, Collins, and JC will all be further along in this offense than they were a year ago. So my hope is all three look really sharp, and we'll be fine.

Weak answer, I know, but it's all I've got.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So what do we do? What can we do?

Short term... make Colt the backup and hope for the best.

Long Term...pick up whichever QB NE doesn't want to keep at the end of next season. The only problem is that it may require sending high draft picks via trade. I am not too fond of that idea. Hopefully the Pat's do not get a deal done with Cassel (realistic) OR they release Brady (I doubt that).

The alternative waste a high draft pick on a Rookie QB next year because as it stands now there is no one else that is both good and will be available.

[44ever]

I am not in favor of having Colt start in place of JC. But that does not mean I don't think he can. It seems that we have a good rookie QB in Colt. Why would we look any further?I am not able to paste stats from my phone but for those who don't know, Colt was the best rookie QB in preseason. With a completion percentage of 67.9 and a QB rating of 109.9 So the guy is quite capable.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by 44ever

I am not in favor of having Colt start in place of JC. But that does not mean I don't think he can. It seems that we have a good rookie QB in Colt. Why would we look any further?I am not able to paste stats from my phone but for those who don't know, Colt was the best rookie QB in preseason. With a completion percentage of 67.9 and a QB rating of 109.9 So the guy is quite capable.

I wouldn't read into those stats one bit. He was playing as a 3rd stringer in preseason. He was lighting up guys that are for the most part backup NFL players or practice squad types. Sure, it's a positive sign that he played well, but I wouldn't use those stats as an argument that he can be a capable starter at this point.

[MTK]

Guys like Danny Wuerffel looked good in the preseason too. Who cares.

[SmootSmack]

Matty,

I think you should start a new thread..."This summer, can we recapture the magic of August 2008 when Colt Brennan, Marcus Mason, and Billy McMullen stole America's hearts and guided the Washington Redskins to a 3-2 Preseason Record"

or

"Who Will Be the 2009 Preseason MVP?"