Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Definitely stay the course with Shanny. For starters our offensive personnel is now tailored to his scheme and as Denver learned it's very hard to switch back. On top of that not many coaches can find Running Backs like they're long snappers. Also they've not only done a great job developing RG3 but Cousins looks to be coming along as well.

Denver realized they made a mistake letting Shanny go, the best COA is to keep him and find a defensive guy that can bring the D back to where it was the past decade.

Denvers best teams they have had in a while were last yeAr and this year. Wasnt too hard for them to adjust the scheme to life after Shanny. Also not sure about any regret comin outta rocky mountain high.
What have you seen in Cousins that makes you believe he is coming along? I saw a perfect spiral to a wide open Moss and two atrocious int's at crunch time.


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[punch it in]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I believe he had 5 sacks last year also. I must say I expected a little more from Jenkins this year. Makes me wonder how much damage his injury actually did to him.

Expected alot more fromJenkins. He was supposed to be like a bonus early round pick this year because he never played last yeAr. He might as well still be on the IR. Big disappointment.


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[Deivybaby]

We suck and next week our defense will revamp cam newton again giving him the best game he'll get and once.more we will discuss why HAZ ISNT FIRED.

dirtbag btw denver better than ever since 04-05 the D been better too no denver fan misses shanny he held that team.back.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Carriker had 5.5 sacks last season. Not bad for sure.

One last thing I'll add;

Orakpo ranked 10th among (3-4) LBs in sacks last year (9 sacks)

Carriker ranked 7th among (3-4) DEs in sacks last year (5.5 sacks)

(Bowen was 4th among 3-4 DEs with 6 sacks)

[random note**JJ Watt last year had 5**]

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Expected alot more fromJenkins. He was supposed to be like a bonus early round pick this year because he never played last yeAr. He might as well still be on the IR. Big disappointment.


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Yeah it sucks because he looked promising from the preseason before getting injured; hell one of my magazines listed him as the 10th best 3-4 DE in the NFL; thats how much people praised this guy. Makes you wonder how much that ACL injury is affecting him or if he's fine, but is being a carson palmer worrying that he's going to re-tear it.

[Deivybaby]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

One last thing I'll add;

Orakpo ranked 10th among (3-4) LBs in sacks last year (9 sacks)

Carriker ranked 7th among (3-4) DEs in sacks last year (5.5 sacks)

random note**JJ Watt last year had 5**

Both r ok but doesnt mean itd change our D we have no pass rush. Now SF thats a team that is a real 3-4 . We need to go 4-3 our D is not built for the 3-4 no real MT our front 7 lacls pass rush and cant cover.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Deivybaby

Both r ok but doesnt mean itd change our D we have no pass rush. Now SF thats a team that is a real 3-4 . We need to go 4-3 our D is not built for the 3-4 no real MT our front 7 lacls pass rush and cant cover.

look, our defense last year wasn't great (13th) but it was good enough to get you to the playoffs, should we of gotten there; or if we had had this offense last year.

The problem with this years defense is

- Secondary
- Injuries
- Depth
- Motivation
- Coaching

Our secondary, even when we were healthy was very poor. Week one we got pressure on Brees. A push up the middle, outside containment and pressure from our OLBs. But our secondary started to break down come 3rd quarter time. Then of course, next game we had....

...Injuries. Orakpo like I said is showing how valuable he was to this team for those (like myself) who thought that we could win with Kerrigan and Rob Jackson. Carriker, as I mentioned before was that guy who would push the pocket right up in the QBs face. That was another big loss, and hurt Orakpo, because Orakpo could go after the QB and over pursue and the QB could escape either from outside the pocket or up the middle.

Depth is another concern. Last year--lets use Barry Cofield for this example--Cofield would go in on 1st and 2nd down and flop between series as to whether or not he would come out or stay in on 3rd down. We would always leave Bowen out there. Sometimes we'd leave either Carriker out there or Cofield or Neild. Well, this year we have no Carriker and no Neild, so that more time for Cofields big body to get over worked or for the likes of Kedric Golston, an inexperienced and still-recovering Jarvis Jenkins, and Doug Worthington. Those guys are all clearly a step down from the other guys I just mentioned. Come this offseason, we need to draft some 3-4 DT/DEs, because Golston and Worthington aren't getting pressure or doing as good a job as Carriker and Neild were. (Also theres Baker who is strictly a run stuffing NT, not a pass rusher (Neild could do both--oh and Neild might go through the same thing Jarvis is going through this year coming off a torn ACL...hell even Carriker could) . Again DRAFT DEPTH AT DL!!!!

Motivation is the last thing. Answer me this, how many 300+ lb guys are going to be motivated to go after smart or athletic or both, QBs who are just ripping apart their secondary. Theres no motivation to try to get to a QB in less than 2 seconds when the QB is doing quick passes against a crap secondary that we have. All the DL are probably thinking "Whats the point with the secondary we have!?!?" This is also where Coaching comes in...

...the players aren't responding well to Haslett and Haslett for the past 3 years has made some pretty dumb calls and believed in one thing on defense and decided to keep the game plan the same (having the defense stay the same after Ponder left and Joe Webb went in; Not adjusting to Amendola catching everything on us). I see no way Haslett returns. If we upgrade our coach, it makes our defense already 4-7 spots better just like that.

Bottom line, as soon as that secondary gets better and we get depth for the future, for all of our Defense, we'll be a drastically improved defense that, with our offense will be good enough to get us far in the playoffs. And theres no point of just switching to a 4-3, because we've spent all this money and all these seasons buying and drafting all these 3-4 players.

--fun fact; right now 6 of the 10 Top 10 defenses are a 3-4. And as for the 10 worst defenses in the NFL right now, 8 of them are 4-3 defenses with only Us and Baltimore as the 2 3-4s in the bottom 10 defenses..--

[REDSKINS4ever]

What I think has happened is the defensive secondary declined more and more given the talent level of QB they've gone up against. Josh Freeman was probably the worst QB the Redskins defense has faced and Freeman is a pretty good quarterback. With each passing week the Redskins defense was never able to rise to the occasion. So getting picked apart week after week became the norm. It now has the defense ranked dead last in the NFL.

[That Guy]

after the season yes. and we shouldn't be tied to the 3-4 if our people run the 4-3 better. once rak and carriker left, the pressure that protected our secondary went away. i don't know if the 4-3 would even help right now, but i'm not a fan of the 3-4 i've seen here.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Whawhawhat?! Is this meant to be serious? There isn't a single Broncos fan I know, talking at least three dozen people here, who would ever want Mike back. Most of them wanted him gone well before the organization finally canned him.

What are you talking about?

My "sources" came from posting on the Broncos forum back in 2010 when I was trying to find out certain aspects about Shanahan's coaching such as his system, handling of players, drafting, etc. In response to my inquiries I got more then one person talking about how they missed Shanahan and how firing him was a mistake. Of course this was during the McDaniels era so I guess from that perspective you could take it with a grain of salt.

Still safe to say I love offenses that produce great rushers like they're nothing and make things much easier for the Quarterback.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Just being honest, I've never heard a Denver Broncos fan lament sending Mike down the road, never. Have you? Has anybody here?

Mike is somewhat of an enigma IMO. One of my relatives in Denver is a very successful oil man, and has done lots of hobnobbing w/ Denver "elite." He said Mike was a total ahole and not well respected there. Heard the same from one of the guys in my office that knows Plummer. I've heard a few players and other NFL personalities say Mike is a good coach, but that's about it.

What matters more? That an oil man thinks Shanahan is an ahole, or that people in the NFL think he's a good coach?

[Chico23231]

I cant stop shaking my head reading this stuff this week. Relying on opinions of a successful oilman to base my view...cant make this stuff up.

Has anybody seen the offense completely turned around and playing at a high level every week? Anybody with half a brain could tell that the defense, especially in the secondary, was going to struggle this year. And then look at the injuries and suspensions on the defensive side of the ball, how are we not the worst D in the league?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Deivybaby

We suck and next week our defense will revamp cam newton again giving him the best game he'll get and once.more we will discuss why HAZ ISNT FIRED.

dirtbag btw denver better than ever since 04-05 the D been better too no denver fan misses shanny he held that team.back.

It's just wrong to say no fans missed Shanahan. I will say that people trusted Bowlen a lot more than anyone trusted Snyder, and so there was acceptance of his decision. I have family and friends in Colo, having lived and worked in Colo Springs for about 8 years in the late 1990's early 2000's and Shanahan's work on the offense was always respected. Sadly, his failings are about what we see now, an inability to have a strong defense, and consistent DC changes. In the throngs of the Josh McDaniels fiasco there was definitely a questioning of Shanahan's firing, but like anything in football, winning cures fans ills, and they latched on to Tebow, and now Peyton is certainly leading them well.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

look, our defense last year wasn't great (13th) but it was good enough to get you to the playoffs, should we of gotten there; or if we had had this offense last year.

The problem with this years defense is

- Secondary
- Injuries
- Depth
- Motivation
- Coaching

Our secondary, even when we were healthy was very poor. Week one we got pressure on Brees. A push up the middle, outside containment and pressure from our OLBs. But our secondary started to break down come 3rd quarter time. Then of course, next game we had....

...Injuries. Orakpo like I said is showing how valuable he was to this team for those (like myself) who thought that we could win with Kerrigan and Rob Jackson. Carriker, as I mentioned before was that guy who would push the pocket right up in the QBs face. That was another big loss, and hurt Orakpo, because Orakpo could go after the QB and over pursue and the QB could escape either from outside the pocket or up the middle.

Depth is another concern. Last year--lets use Barry Cofield for this example--Cofield would go in on 1st and 2nd down and flop between series as to whether or not he would come out or stay in on 3rd down. We would always leave Bowen out there. Sometimes we'd leave either Carriker out there or Cofield or Neild. Well, this year we have no Carriker and no Neild, so that more time for Cofields big body to get over worked or for the likes of Kedric Golston, an inexperienced and still-recovering Jarvis Jenkins, and Doug Worthington. Those guys are all clearly a step down from the other guys I just mentioned. Come this offseason, we need to draft some 3-4 DT/DEs, because Golston and Worthington aren't getting pressure or doing as good a job as Carriker and Neild were. (Also theres Baker who is strictly a run stuffing NT, not a pass rusher (Neild could do both--oh and Neild might go through the same thing Jarvis is going through this year coming off a torn ACL...hell even Carriker could) . Again DRAFT DEPTH AT DL!!!!

Motivation is the last thing. Answer me this, how many 300+ lb guys are going to be motivated to go after smart or athletic or both, QBs who are just ripping apart their secondary. Theres no motivation to try to get to a QB in less than 2 seconds when the QB is doing quick passes against a crap secondary that we have. All the DL are probably thinking "Whats the point with the secondary we have!?!?" This is also where Coaching comes in...

...the players aren't responding well to Haslett and Haslett for the past 3 years has made some pretty dumb calls and believed in one thing on defense and decided to keep the game plan the same (having the defense stay the same after Ponder left and Joe Webb went in; Not adjusting to Amendola catching everything on us). I see no way Haslett returns. If we upgrade our coach, it makes our defense already 4-7 spots better just like that.

Bottom line, as soon as that secondary gets better and we get depth for the future, for all of our Defense, we'll be a drastically improved defense that, with our offense will be good enough to get us far in the playoffs. And theres no point of just switching to a 4-3, because we've spent all this money and all these seasons buying and drafting all these 3-4 players.

--fun fact; right now 6 of the 10 Top 10 defenses are a 3-4. And as for the 10 worst defenses in the NFL right now, 8 of them are 4-3 defenses with only Us and Baltimore as the 2 3-4s in the bottom 10 defenses..--

Good post, one point I would make is that we are playing our DLine Depth now, and as our primary guys return (hopefully close to full strength or at it) we may very well see that our depth is good because a lot of these guys that are playing now will go back to rotational playing time, where they can come in at the best time for their strengths. I know this year has been a killer, but if we are able to strengthen our safeties and CBs in draft and FA, our defense may end up benefitting from the playing time these role players are getting.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Deivybaby

We suck and next week our defense will revamp cam newton again giving him the best game he'll get and once.more we will discuss why HAZ ISNT FIRED.

dirtbag btw denver better than ever since 04-05 the D been better too no denver fan misses shanny he held that team.back.

Yep! History proves that this will be the game that puts Cams game back on track. We will be the team to give him back the name "SuperCam". Some of you know what Im talking about. Just watch and see...