Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think America is ready for a woman to be President.

then you and many others here are naive. Maybe DC is ready.. but not America. I wish it were so, but I don't think it is...

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

then you and many others here are naive. Maybe DC is ready.. but not America. I wish it were so, but I don't think it is...

So what do you have to say about Hillary receiving nearly 18,000,000 votes?

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

So what do you have to say about Hillary receiving nearly 18,000,000 votes?

I call it a minority vote... before she received the nomination... so I call it nothing.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

and more proof why America is not ready for a woman to be President.

Because people would judge a female president's looks? People dog on females looks openly everyday. Whats the difference?

PS. I really have no pull towards whether or not America is ready for a female pres.. I don't really care too much either way. Just intrigued by the conversation.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

then you and many others here are naive. Maybe DC is ready.. but not America. I wish it were so, but I don't think it is...

I don't understand what you mean by "not ready'?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I disagree, I think in large part McCain took keen note of the trouble Barack was having with some Hill supporters and saw this as an opening and a potential game changer. Yes, he may rally the conservative base but at what cost? What do Indie voters think about this pick? Are they as conservative on many of the social issues that Palin has and does stand for? In the end, this election is coming down to that slice of the electorate. Obama is trying to rally his base and so is McCain. If both are successful, then it comes down to the independent voter. Another thing, McCain needs that vote more than Obama. This woman adds maybe two things to McCain's ticket. She's an energy buff, coming from the state of Alaska, and she's a woman. And to the extent he can capitilize on the latter will determine how good a pick this was. Now whether or not this was truly McCain's motive, no one knows. But I can tell you first hand, many of my Hillary friends see this as an insult.

Poll shows no convention bounce for Obama - CNN.com

"Women now appear slightly more likely to vote for Obama than they did a week ago, 53 percent now, compared to 50 percent. But McCain picked up a couple of points among men.

"More important, McCain solidified his party's base with the Palin selection, dropping Obama's share of the Republican vote six points to just 5 percent now. The Palin selection did not help among women -- that may come later -- but it did appeal to Republican loyalists."

[12thMan]

The polls do vary some. That CNN poll does show a 1 point lead, but the Gallaup daily tracking poll has BHO up by 6 points. The average of polls show a lead of 3.4 points.

So we'll see what happens.

[dmek25]

this pick was strictly politics as usual. reaching out for the Hilliary supporters. the first thing i thought was, is this the best they could do? with her lack of experience, she makes Obama look worldly. there is no way in hell i want her one step away from running my country. almost laughable

[4mrusmc]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I totally respect your opinion and the way in which you have served our great country. But let me tell you, and certainly not to one up you, that I too served this great country during the Persian Gulf War. In fact, my ship, U.S.S. Tripoli, suffered damage from a mine explosion and re-deployed during the same mission. So I can totally relate to and understand your affection for a war hero like Senator McCain. He served our country honorably and deserves tremendous respect for that.

But as a proud American first and a proud Democrat second, let's both agree right here and now that military service in and of itself does not translate to capable leadership neither is it the benchmark for patriotism. In fact, let's agree that patriotism and one's love of country, which seems to be the case you're trying to make, doesn't belong exclusively to one party or the other. I believe John McCain loves this country and so does Barack Obama. The same goes for Governor Palin and Senator Biden.

Now whether or not Senator McCain is truly a Maverick and has the temperment and judgement to lead this country is certainly debatable. But I will never debate or question his patriotism and love of country.

12th, I too appreciate your service to our country. And I also was deployed in the middle east during Desert Storm.

But I'm sorry, I will not pretend to not see protesters who often times call themselves proud dems: disrespect, talk-down, spit, burn, and other unmentionable things to our flag and troops. I'm trying not to sound like the priviously mentioned "rep bubba" but here it goes. This country is home of the free, because of the brave. And because of hollywood and the sad times we live in today, it seems to be uncool to be a proud American who is patriotic. But you guys cannot explain it away enough for me the conduct that some of your demacratic friends have when they are at these protest events, and amongst themselves behind closed doors.

Dovetail that with the Obamas, their affilations with known America hating individuals. And comments like "this is the first time that I am proud of my country". I will choose not to vote for that this November.

[4mrusmc]

Originally Posted by dmek25

12th, according to your resume, and republican thinking, you my friend are actually qualified to run for president

Dmek, come on pal. Do I really need to post a laundry list comparing the experience and accomplishments of both Obama and McCain? Obviously, regardless of what I or anybody says about the two candidates your mind is already made up.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

12th, I too appreciate your service to our country. And I also was deployed in the middle east during Desert Storm.

But I'm sorry, I will not pretend to not see protesters who often times call themselves proud dems: disrespect, talk-down, spit, burn, and other unmentionable things to our flag and troops. I'm trying not to sound like the priviously mentioned "rep bubba" but here it goes. This country is home of the free, because of the brave. And because of hollywood and the sad times we live in today, it seems to be uncool to be a proud American who is patriotic. But you guys cannot explain it away enough for me the conduct that some of your demacratic friends have when they are at these protest events, and amongst themselves behind closed doors.

Dovetail that with the Obamas, their affilations with known America hating individuals. And comments like "this is the first time that I am proud of my country". I will choose not to vote for that this November.

Listen, I won't go tit for tat on what the Obama's said or meant to say, so called affiliations and such. Let the record speak for itself - the whole record. Trust me, I have no desire to convert or convince you, as it were. But I'll say this again, you or no one else is any position to question anyone's patriotism or love of country.

And for every flag burning, American hating protester that you claim are Democrats, one could easily turn around and point to a few of our Republican friends who haven't always upheld and in some cases denigrated our Constitution. Wouldn't it be foolish of me to make broad and sweeping assumptions that because Nixon was dishonest, that all Republican presidents shouldn't be trusted?

We live in a nation right now that is divided on a host of issues. Torture, immigration, and the war in Iraq, just to name a few. And whether you realize it or not, Americans in both parties aren't very proud of the last eight years. I don't think the issue is whether or not people are unpatriotic in all cases, sometimes they feel as though they aren't being listened to by their government.

By the way, what exactly is patriotism in your book? How do you define it?

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

Dmek, come on pal. Do I really need to post a laundry list comparing the experience and accomplishments of both Obama and McCain? Obviously, regardless of what I or anybody says about the two candidates your mind is already made up.

i respect your commitment to protect and serve our great country. i thank you for preserving my freedoms. but, just because John McCain served in the military, it doesn't make him more qualified to be the president. every time he says i know how to win wars, i almost puke. how does he have this great insight? by getting shot down, and being tortured? he is a real American hero, for what he did in war time. but the Vietnam war, and the Iraq war mirror each other. to win a war, you have to be able to identify the enemy. this is impossible in Iraq. i respect John McCain, but no way in hell want him, or his vice president running the show. this is the biggest difference between the parties. the G.O.P has no respect for anyone the Dem's put in the forefront

[saden1]

John McCain is a leader and a capable one at that. He graduated from the Naval Academy and can be trusted with the Red Button.

[4mrusmc]

12th, my definiton will first start with what Webster says. And that is: one who loves his or her country. Then I will amend it by saying: one who is willing to defend it at all costs. One who believes in what the founding fathers sought for the vision of what this country should be in such documents as The Declaration of Indepenence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

12th, my definiton will first start with what Webster says. And that is: one who loves his or her country. Then I will amend it by saying: one who is willing to defend it at all costs. One who believes in what the founding fathers sought for the vision of what this country should be in such documents as The Declaration of Indepenence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.

Okay, I can dig that. But that definition is a little too abstract for me. What about those who don't or can't serve in the military. How are they to prove their love or defend our country? Surely that would leave out hundreds of millions of Americans, wouldn't it? Another thing, since you cite the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, how does the institution of slavery factor into this and more recently, the Jim Crow era, as it relates to our founding fathers and their ideals of sacracfice and service?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to see exactly when did America start loving and defending other Americans - all Americans.