"Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by jdlea

This gameplan is mind bogglingly terrible. First of all, assuming DE's are going to get there every time they pass rush is a terrible way to gameplan (otherwise no one would ever blitz) so it effectively takes nothing away from the offense outside of a few plays when they actually apply good pressure. It also opens up gaping holes to run/cut back through. DE's in the backfield opens up the running game because they run by the running back and open holes, and "stacking the box" involves adding exactly 1 more player to the box, a safety, so there is absolutely no way pass rushing on every down would ever be an effective deterrent to a running game. On a well executed run play, you'd have a running back making it to the second level pretty much clean by cutting back into the holes the ends vacated, if a lead blocker accounts for the linebacker in that situation, the rusher's out of the gate and you just got gashed, probably for 10+, possibly for 6 points.

I guarantee if you showed this gameplan to Clinton Portis he be salivating.

That's not what stacking the box exactly means. Who the heck is in the box other than that safety? - the damn linebackers who would be "stacked" to play the run. And guess what the giants and every other good defensive-coached teams are planning to do (and have done)?

And it doesn't matter how well the offensive line does in pass protection. If the de's are teeing up on the qb all day, they're going to look like shit like last year. Naturally the o line is going to look better in run-blocking, but that's the small sacrifice that the opposing defensive line can concede if they can have the linebackers and safeties stopping the run.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

That's not what stacking the box exactly means. Who the heck is in the box other than that safety? - the damn linebackers who would be "stacked" to play the run. And guess what the giants and every other good defensive-coached teams are planning to do (and have done)?

And it doesn't matter how well the offensive line does in pass protection. If the de's are teeing up on the qb all day, they're going to look like shit like last year. Naturally the o line is going to look better in run-blocking, but that's the small sacrifice that the opposing defensive line can concede if they can have the linebackers and safeties stopping the run.

I said "exactly 1 more." Stacking the box means you add a safety to your linebackers and D Line (also in the box, conveniently missing from your first, condescending sentence). And exactly like I said, let the DE run by, pick up the OLB and you're off to the races...why do you think the draw play works? The Ends run by and it opens up gaping holes.

Also, "just like they did last year?" I'm sure you mean the end of the year when the OL fell apart, but the O Line was solid to open the season.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

The code is cracked.

the code was cracked last year against the steelers, then the ravens imo. in all reality we've been dealing with this "we need to stretch the field so teams dont stack the box" issue for years and years, well before zorn got here. shoot, wasnt adding lloyd and ARE years ago supposed to be our answer to this problem?

go skins!!

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I said "exactly 1 more." Stacking the box means you add a safety to your linebackers and D Line (also in the box, conveniently missing from your first, condescending sentence). And exactly like I said, let the DE run by, pick up the OLB and you're off to the races...why do you think the draw play works? The Ends run by and it opens up gaping holes.

Also, "just like they did last year?" I'm sure you mean the end of the year when the OL fell apart, but the O Line was solid to open the season.

First, the draw play usually gains yardage because the opposing defense is in zone and are playing the pass (usually in 3rd and long). You don't see the draw play run on 1st downs usually because it is meant to catch the defense off-guard.

And second, you are so sure about this shit - then why don't you tell me why the offense was struggling last year against all kinds of defenses. At his best performances last year, campbell was being praised for not turning the ball over.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

the code was cracked last year against the steelers, then the ravens imo. in all reality we've been dealing with this "we need to stretch the field so teams dont stack the box" issue for years and years, well before zorn got here. shoot, wasnt adding lloyd and ARE years ago supposed to be our answer to this problem?

go skins!!

Now teams just know we have JC trying to open things up and it not scaring them very much. LOL

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

The thing that worries me is little details like this quote-

"The first play of the game, one thing I was impressed by was his speed," Campbell said. "I didn't know he was that fast. When I let it go, I thought it was going to hit him in stride. Actually, I wish I could've thrown it maybe a yard, two yards deeper. . . . Now, you get a feel for a guy."

Okay, after OTAs, Training Camp, and 2 weeks into preseason practices- NOW you've got a feel for a guy? I know he's been injured somewhat, but sheesh - how slow can you be in getting a "feel" for a guy?

Come on, this is one of about 10 deep passes he's thrown in over 5 seasons.

Seriously though, Kelly really just started playing a couple of weeks ago. I'd bet that Kelly initially favored his knees & ran slower, and now is getting back to full speed. He probably ran a lot quicker during game-time. (we should have measured his 40 during the game -- they always said he was quicker on film). The timing will come.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Come on, this is one of about 10 deep passes he's thrown in over 5 seasons.

Seriously though, Kelly really just started playing a couple of weeks ago. I'd bet that Kelly initially favored his knees & ran slower, and now is getting back to full speed. He probably ran a lot quicker during game-time. (we should have measured his 40 during the game -- they always said he was quicker on film). The timing will come.

I hope so. I hate to be negative, but I have been giving him the benefit of the doubt for a couple of seasons now- I'm not doing it anymore.

[ethat001]

Not to play devil's advocate, but I was trying to defend Jason to see how he threw the long ball in the past -- and I guess I went pretty far back to his draft reviews.. But these are interesting to look at.. I guess he had some of the same problems 4-5 years ago.

Overall: Campbell is a coaches son who also stared in basketball in high school. ... Campbell has always had excellent size, good athletic ability and above average arm strength, but his poor decision making skills, lack of poise in the pocket, indecisiveness and erratic arm haunted him early in his collegiate career. Throughout his first three seasons as a starter, Campbell consistently held onto the ball too long, threw too many passes up for grabs...
ESPN.com - NFL - NFL Draft '05 - Player


Athletic passer who took his game to another level as a senior. Patient in the pocket, buys time for receivers and poised under pressure. Feels the rush, steps up to avoid it, then finds the open pass-catcher... Looks off the safety, goes through receiver progressions and does not force the ball if nothing.s available. Does not take bad sacks and always trying to make something positive happen. Keeps his eyes down the field rolling out, makes good decisions and runs with the ball as a last resort. Accurate between the hashes, displays a good sense of timing and improved his pass placement as a senior. Effective at the Senior Bowl in a West Coast timing offense.
NEGATIVES: Cannot drive the deep pass, late on the outs and loses accuracy throwing on the move. Rarely makes plays with his legs.
ANALYSIS: A prospect with the physical tools to work with, Campbell improved his overall game and made a big jump up draft boards the past six months. Most effective in a short passing offense that does not rely on the vertical game. Will need to sit on the sidelines for a few seasons and develop his game, but proved himself a capable leader off the 2004 season.
SI.com - 2005 NFL Draft - Jason Campbell

I guess NFL play says more than all this, but this makes me wonder how much has changed over the years.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

First, the draw play usually gains yardage because the opposing defense is in zone and are playing the pass (usually in 3rd and long). You don't see the draw play run on 1st downs usually because it is meant to catch the defense off-guard.

And second, you are so sure about this shit - then why don't you tell me why the offense was struggling last year against all kinds of defenses. At his best performances last year, campbell was being praised for not turning the ball over.

Why you feel the need to cuss and make personal attacks, I'm not certain, but I'll answer your question to the best of my knowledge.

Jason Campbell was playing decent to begin the season, he wasn't lighting the world on fire, but he didn't have to. I believe that during the Saints game he showed that if they needed the deep ball, he could get it done. There are lots of reasons offenses struggle, not the least of which was a porous offensive line at the end of the season.

As Clinton Portis goes, so go the Redskins and I think we all saw what happened when he got bottled up, the offense couldn't move the ball. I tend to think the whole O struggled to adjust to a new system. Receivers weren't positive where they were supposed to go and Jason wasn't sure where they were going. I also think that having small receivers in the WCO is a bad idea, it's easier to throw slants to bigger more physical players, not shrimps like Santana and Antwan

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

At his best performances last year, campbell was being praised for not turning the ball over.

Uhh, several intelligent football analysts(including Ron Jaworski and Sean Salisbury) were throwing Campbell's name around as a candidate for league MVP at the midway point of the season last year. I think that's a bit higher praise than "he doesn't turn the ball over".

And I still can't figure out why it's so hard for people to correlate the fact that the offensive production went downhill last season, when the line started falling apart. Portis' production fell off significantly too. It's hard to produce any kind of offense behind a beat up offensive line.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Uhh, several intelligent football analysts(including Ron Jaworski and Sean Salisbury) were throwing Campbell's name around as a candidate for league MVP at the midway point of the season last year. I think that's a bit higher praise than "he doesn't turn the ball over".

And I still can't figure out why it's so hard for people to correlate the fact that the offensive production went downhill last season, when the line started falling apart. Portis' production fell off significantly too. It's hard to produce any kind of offense behind a beat up offensive line.

It's easy to want to defend Jason Campbell as a person, but defending his play on the field is a lot harder to do. Everyone wants to root for him, but his production and consistency just isn't good enough. I want to be a homer just like everyone else, but I think it hit me this preseason that Campbell is just not good enough. If his offseason didn't motivate him enough to have a good showing in preseason to this point (to prove himself to the team), I don't know what will.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Why you feel the need to cuss and make personal attacks, I'm not certain, but I'll answer your question to the best of my knowledge.

Jason Campbell was playing decent to begin the season, he wasn't lighting the world on fire, but he didn't have to. I believe that during the Saints game he showed that if they needed the deep ball, he could get it done. There are lots of reasons offenses struggle, not the least of which was a porous offensive line at the end of the season.

As Clinton Portis goes, so go the Redskins and I think we all saw what happened when he got bottled up, the offense couldn't move the ball. I tend to think the whole O struggled to adjust to a new system. Receivers weren't positive where they were supposed to go and Jason wasn't sure where they were going. I also think that having small receivers in the WCO is a bad idea, it's easier to throw slants to bigger more physical players, not shrimps like Santana and Antwan

so i guess it's just preseason, so it doesn't matter that Campbell is still struggling even though he has a decent line and protection in front of him. It's just preseason and the wins and loses don't matter, but the performances still do.

[Jay Schroeder]

I'm worried about Campbell. I think hes one of the 5 worst qbs in the league. Our O line starters looked good and so did our run game on the first series, but teams will stack 8 in the box on us and we'll be screwed. Our D can't keep teams scoreless. My only hope is if we miss playoffs that we get rid of Zorn and JC and convince Cowher (a real football coach) to man the ship. I hope I am wrong though. I definitely wouldve been happy if we got Cutler, but two first rounders wouldve been a steep price given our other weaknesses.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I want to be a homer just like everyone else, but I think it hit me this preseason that Campbell is just not good enough.

Your ability to analyze the 13 passes he's made this preseason must be superhuman if you're already able to determine that he won't succeed.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Your ability to analyze the 13 passes he's made this preseason must be superhuman if you're already able to determine that he won't succeed.

On the contrary, he's had more than just these 13 passes to analyze. These 13 passes were just an opportunity for him to prove the judgments on him were wrong (that were made before the preseason began).