Arizona's New Immigration Law

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

again, seems to be okay on Wall Street where it's back to shady business as usual.

i realize we're mixing subjects here, but not really. it seems most people want to claim that they understand immigrants wanting to better their lives and it has nothing to do with racism or class warfare, just the fact that by doing it illegally, they are "draining the system" or "costing us taxpayers X-amount of dollars" and yet no one wants to treat the criminals on wall street as criminals who frauded the system.

If they broke laws then send them to jail. I didn't know I needed to bring up that subject to validate my point on immigration. I'll try to remeber that next time.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well did you even look at the stats that the article provided? So we should just let more people drain the system even more?

I did look at the stats, and that is a part of why I say I won't win the argument. I am for a SERIOUSLY smaller federal government. Thus making the contributions of immigrants at all levels much more economically feasible. But the problem is not the immigrants, but the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I did look at the stats, and that is a part of why I say I won't win the argument. I am for a SERIOUSLY smaller federal government. Thus making the contributions of immigrants at all levels much more economically feasible. But the problem is not the immigrants, but the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy.

That Sr. we both agree on.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

again, seems to be okay on Wall Street where it's back to shady business as usual.

i realize we're mixing subjects here, but not really. it seems most people want to claim that they understand immigrants wanting to better their lives and it has nothing to do with racism or class warfare, just the fact that by doing it illegally, they are "draining the system" or "costing us taxpayers X-amount of dollars" and yet no one wants to treat the criminals on wall street as criminals who defrauded the system.

I don't think anyone here claimed that if a wall street business was guilty of fraud, or any other criminal act, that they shouldn't be prosecuted.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't think anyone here claimed that if a wall street business was guilty of fraud, or any other criminal act, that they shouldn't be prosecuted.

fair enough... but the "IF"s in this thread... and the fact that "smaller govt" (ie less/no regulation) is part of what let these clowns run amok semi-legally. i dont claim to know the ins/outs of bank fraud laws and credit default swaps and all that other toxic shit that brought on the economic collapse... and i bet there's not a simple "crime" on the books to be pointed to, but there was a tremendous transfer of wealth from us (the lower and middle class taxpayers) to them (the ultra rich elite) and when the whole thing blew up, our govt (us/taxpayers, etc) gave them another 700 million and counting...... and, as we know, it was Bush AND Obama, a "bipartisan" effort to hand these assholes hundreds of millions of dollars AFTER they'd robbed us all blind. so, it's just a bit odd to see complaints about "the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy" as if some poor bastard getting $482/month from the government is the big problem in this country.

another one ripped from the headlines would be the oil spill in the gulf. the Wall St Journal reported that the oil well didn't have a remote-controlled emergency "off switch." i guess no one wanted "big govt" to get involved with telling businesses how to operate so Dick Cheney's energy task force figured $500,000 switches were too expensive to force BP to buy/install. $500,000 is NOTHING to a big oil company... and how much of a drain on our economy will result from that spill?

i realize this is/was an immigration thread and some of you might say these are all separate topics, but my point is that "social welfare" is not near the top of the list of things draining our economy. this myth that poor minorities are handed everything and/or that we're all working our asses off (or posting on WP while at work) so these poor folks can live it up is a bit ridiculous.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't think anyone here claimed that if a wall street business was guilty of fraud, or any other criminal act, that they shouldn't be prosecuted.

We need to fix the border, so you guys round 'em up and roll 'em out. Show the world how tough you guys are. Place another shameful mark on our imperfect union. But me and my peeps won't be wearing that one. So don't be crying 20 years from now when you are judged by your freaking actions, and alot of people wind up getting checks. Just admint it, it's fear, it's fear because they ccould fundamentally change this country and the paranoid fifth aka tea party will be even more marginalized.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

We need to fix the border, so you guys round 'em up and roll 'em out. Show the world how tough you guys are. Place another shameful mark on our imperfect union. But me and my peeps won't be wearing that one. So don't be crying 20 years from now when you are judged by your freaking actions, and alot of people wind up getting checks. Just admint it, it's fear, it's fear because they ccould fundamentally change this country and the paranoid fifth aka tea party will be even more marginalized.

i guess this is part of what i was getting at. when it comes to darkskinned minorities, we MUST follow the letter of the law because it's causing a drain on the economy. but when white guys in suits rob us of hundreds of billions we shrug our shoulders and say the market must be free and technically they kinda sorta didn't really actually break one specific law.... i am NOT accusing people on this thread of being racists. but it's naive to think that there's not a racial component to these issues.

unless your ancestors were Native American Indians, you're an immigrant too.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

i guess this is part of what i was getting at. when it comes to darkskinned minorities, we MUST follow the letter of the law because it's causing a drain on the economy. but when white guys in suits rob us of hundreds of billions we shrug our shoulders and say the market must be free and technically they kinda sorta didn't really actually break one specific law.... i am NOT accusing people on this thread of being racists. but it's naive to think that there's not a racial component to these issues.

unless your ancestors were Native American Indians, you're an immigrant too.

I am not an immigrant I want to be returned ot my ancestral homeland right on top of the South African diamond mines.

[joethiesmanfan]

We could buils a true democracy transaparent and the US millitary could helpus build a wall and use drones to blow up the boers who resist. We could be a beacon of freedonm.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

I am not an immigrant I want to be returned ot my ancestral homeland right on top of the South African diamond mines.

I mean this in the most polite way; No one is stopping you from moving.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

i guess this is part of what i was getting at. when it comes to darkskinned minorities, we MUST follow the letter of the law because it's causing a drain on the economy. but when white guys in suits rob us of hundreds of billions we shrug our shoulders and say the market must be free and technically they kinda sorta didn't really actually break one specific law.... i am NOT accusing people on this thread of being racists. but it's naive to think that there's not a racial component to these issues.

unless your ancestors were Native American Indians, you're an immigrant too.

There are 536 suits in DC that are robbing us far more than the greed-mongers on Wall Street. And those 536 suits in DC have the power to regulate what happens on Wall Street, but have been reluctant to do so.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I mean this in the most polite way; No one is stopping you from moving.

I mean gather the marines let's go. Plus i will be requiring 20 billion a year in aid. Oh yeah a few nukes and some fighter jets. Let's do it.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

There are 536 suits in DC that are robbing us far more than the greed-mongers on Wall Street. And those 536 suits in DC have the power to regulate what happens on Wall Street, but have been reluctant to do so.

agree, they are all in it together. wallstreet owns the govt., the govt lets wallstreet rob us cuz wallstreet lobbyists give the politicians their cut, then the govt "bails out" wallstreet and they all keep robbing us. pretty sure most/all of us will agree on that.

and hopefully we all recognize that BOTH parties do this, albeit with different spin/packaging. but Bush was BIG GOVT. this didn't just magically start with Obama. the Military/Pentagon and defense contracting is HUGE govt. this stuff dwarfs "social welfare" to the point that it's silly. funny we dont hear as much outrage over "corporate welfare."

of course both sides of our govt certainly prefer that we argue about mexicans, and blacks vs. whites, conservatives vs liberals, gay marriage, flag burning, etc etc....
and all this Red vs. Blue Dems vs Repubs is just coke/pepsi bullshit, the illusion of choice.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

agree, they are all in it together. wallstreet owns the govt., the govt lets wallstreet rob us cuz wallstreet lobbyists give the politicians their cut, then the govt "bails out" wallstreet and they all keep robbing us. pretty sure most/all of us will agree on that.

and hopefully we all recognize that BOTH parties do this, albeit with different spin/packaging. but Bush was BIG GOVT. this didn't just magically start with Obama. the Military/Pentagon and defense contracting is HUGE govt. this stuff dwarfs "social welfare" to the point that it's silly. funny we dont hear as much outrage over "corporate welfare."

of course both sides of our govt certainly prefer that we argue about mexicans, and blacks vs. whites, conservatives vs liberals, gay marriage, flag burning, etc etc....
and all this Red vs. Blue Dems vs Repubs is just coke/pepsi bullshit, the illusion of choice.

Thank you, and this immirgration bill grows government and gives police more powers. Police/millitary contractors are all big goverment getting bigger. Just called by a different name. In this country we don't single out groups. Trying to criminalize an ethnic group is reprehensible. Everyone wants to avoid liability. We want to hold them accountable for crossing the border. They will be only ones held accountable everyone else will say not my fault.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

I mean gather the marines let's go. Plus i will be requiring 20 billion a year in aid. Oh yeah a few nukes and some fighter jets. Let's do it.

umm, why. If you want to emigrate out of the US, no one is stopping you. I doubt anyone would aid you in anything remotely close to that, but I do happen to have for you.