Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

[BigHairedAristocrat]

For your third post, you quoted yourself. Welcome to the board.

[JoeRedskin]

Yeah, he quoted himself. But it was a good, relevant quote that was really more of a reference the NFL charter/by-laws.

Getting facts straight, backing up opinion with foundational documents and relevant links. ... So far, Hoophead has the JoeRedskin seal of approval. I am sure that makes his day.

[JoeRedskin]

The other side of the coin here and, as NCSkins referenced, the Skins are not exactly a naive victim. No, you can't enforce illegal agreements but it's not like the Skins didn't realize the "warnings" were part of a collusive agreement. I don't recall, however, DS or Bruce Allen coming forward and telling any one in the public - "Hey, the owners are secretly trying to influence how player contracts are being negotiated."

Essentially, the Skins gave a giant middle finger to their fellow owners. It appears the Skins basically told the league "We know you don't like our contract dumping but what are you going to do about it? Call the cops? Take your pick, either approve the contracts or provide the players with hard evidence of the collusion."

Legally, how does that affect the League's substantive ability to sanction the Skins for their conduct (the contract dumping) by restructuring the salary cap? Not sure exactly. It may not have any effect - again, illegal contracts cannot be enforced. Period. As a practical matter, and in an open court trial, however, it would certainly make all the owners look bad, possibly open the owners (including DS) up to "bad faith claims", may even allow the players to reopen their collusion suit, and certainly would piss off the players (who would probably remember it 10 years from now when the CBA comes up).

Are the Skins legally correct in asserting that there is no substantive basis for sanctioning them? Based on the facts that have come out and the language cited from the 2006 & 2012 CBA's and NFL Charter/By-laws (thanks Hoophead!), I am about as certain of that as a I can be. There may be language in the documents that provides the authority, but it isn't in any of the places one would expect to find such language and there is plenty of language indicating that there was no authority for the salary cap adjustment.

Is it in their best interests to pursue a remedy through a lawsuit or other formal action? Given the nasty consequences that could occur even if they prevail, I am pretty sure that I would advise them to use that as an absolute last resort.

[NC_Skins]

Pretty good story by a Skins fan in Texas with him meeting up with Skins brass. I'm posting this here due to the relevance of the Skins fighting the cap mess. I tell you what, Bruce is one hell of a guy. Got to love a GM that shares a connection with fans the way he does.

I live in Hewitt- a suburb of Waco. My sister calls me around 6:30 tonight telling me the bartender of a local restaurant she frequents for happy hour told her RG3 was there in a private room with members of the Washington Redskins. This place is less than a mile away so I decide to go up there, have a beer and see for myself.

Sure enough, as you walk in the front of this restaurant there is a private room right of the left of the entrance and I see RG3 with coach Shanahan sitting immediately to his left. I didn't get a chance to look for long but there was easily 15 people in the room.

I meet my sister and sit at the bar giddy as a kid on Christmas morning. Remember I live in Texas...what are the odds I would ever be around anyone associated with the Redskins organization?
We go outside to smoke a cigarette and when we come back I see Bruce Allen sitting 3 stools away from me on his cell phone at the bar! without thinking I said "Hey Bruce" as he smiled and noticed the Redskins cap on my head. I play it cool cause the last thing I want to be is some obnoxious overzealous fan.

So I mind my own business sitting at the bar watching the Baylor women playing on the TV. I overhear some of his conversation. I believe he was talking to DeMaurice Smith of the NFLPA. He was complaining about the league's salary cap penalties. I wish I could give out more specific details but I couldn't follow enough.

Eventually he hangs up and he instantly engages me... He said "what are you doing wearing that hat?" I mention it is because of my love for the Redskins at which point he stands up and shakes my hand. He asked me how long I have been a Redskins fan and where I was from. I told him I was too young when his dad coached the team and that I became a fan during Gibbs 1 era.. Some of the highlights.....I asked him about the salary cap fiasco and he told me in no uncertain terms they are going to fight it and so are the Cowboys.

He talked about how excited they are about RG3 and how Griffin is glad it wasn't Cleveland that moved up to number 2. After a few more minutes of friendly banter with myself and the group I was with ( who were all Cowboys fans but were VERY cordial in welcoming him there) he excused himself to make another phone call.

I go to the bathroom and low and behold, Kyle Shanahan walks in as I'm finishing my business. ( I swear I did not follow anyone into the bathroom to talk). He also comments on my hat. I welcome him to Texas and tell him I am a UT fan and remember when he played WR for Texas. I told him how excited the fans are at the possibility of RG3 and he replied "not nearly as much as I am" as we parted ways.
There is a lot of laughter coming from that party room the whole night. I turned my head a few times and I saw pictures being taken of RG3 with each Shanahan.

Eventually Bruce makes his way back to the bar and has a long conversation with another member of the party. The guy Bruce is talking to heads to the men's room and I take the opportunity to walk up to him and ask him if there is any way I could possibly meet coach Shanahan and he says "absolutely".

Bruce asks my name and personally escorts me into the room and introduces me to Mike. Mike shakes my hand and tells me thanks for the support and asks if I am from Waco to which I respond yes. At this point other members of the party notice this stranger wearing a Redskins hat.

One of them is none other than Dan Snyder. I acknowledge him and wave to him as he is a good distance away at the table. I then got the balls to speak up and said as I lifted up my beer "as the sole representative of Redskins fans worldwide in this room I would like to say welcome to Waco, we appreciate what you are all doing, and Hail to the Redskins" which was welcomed with smiles and a few "Hails".

I then thanked Bruce for taking me back there, shook his hand and walked back to the bar. I didn't get a chance to talk to RG3. He was in a conversation with someone across the table and I didn't want to interrupt.

A few minutes later I notice that the party has ended as they slowly start to leave. At this point I said screw it I want to try to get one picture with someone in that party. As I head out the door Mike starts heading to the bathroom, sees me again and gives me a tap on the back as he walks by.

Since I talked with Bruce quite a bit tonight I went up to him one last time and asked if it would be any trouble if I got a picture. He then yells out to Dan at which point Dan gladly comes over puts his arm around me and poses for two pictures Bruce Allen takes with my cell phone.

In between pics Dan said to me "we appreciate your support". I said thank you, shook his hand went back in to pay my bar tab then drove home a little after 9 pm buzzing and asking myself "did that really happen?"

My dream came true tonight. Met and talked with all the top brass of the Redskins (Thread Includes Pics--MET)

[Jontrem]

Pretty cool story

[skinsguy]

Thanks for posting that piece NC_Skins. Much better than what I posted a few days ago...LOL!

[T.O.Killa]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Pretty good story by a Skins fan in Texas with him meeting up with Skins brass. I'm posting this here due to the relevance of the Skins fighting the cap mess. I tell you what, Bruce is one hell of a guy. Got to love a GM that shares a connection with fans the way he does.





My dream came true tonight. Met and talked with all the top brass of the Redskins (Thread Includes Pics--MET)

Where is the picture?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by T.O.Killa

Where is the picture?

It's on like page 3 or 4 of the thread. Guess it was too hard to just edit the OP's post.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

i feel dirty every time i visit extremeskins. im going to have to spend extra time here today to help me feel clean again.

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by T.O.Killa

Where is the picture?

Where is the birth certificate!

Whoops, sorry wrong thread...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mbedner3420

Where is the birth certificate!

Whoops, sorry wrong thread...

That's awesome. Well done

[T.O.Killa]

Originally Posted by mbedner3420

Where is the birth certificate!

Whoops, sorry wrong thread...

Hey, I think it was reasonable question. The story sounds credible, but the picture makes it a fact.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The other side of the coin here and, as NCSkins referenced, the Skins are not exactly a naive victim. No, you can't enforce illegal agreements but it's not like the Skins didn't realize the "warnings" were part of a collusive agreement. I don't recall, however, DS or Bruce Allen coming forward and telling any one in the public - "Hey, the owners are secretly trying to influence how player contracts are being negotiated."

Essentially, the Skins gave a giant middle finger to their fellow owners. It appears the Skins basically told the league "We know you don't like our contract dumping but what are you going to do about it? Call the cops? Take your pick, either approve the contracts or provide the players with hard evidence of the collusion."

Legally, how does that affect the League's substantive ability to sanction the Skins for their conduct (the contract dumping) by restructuring the salary cap? Not sure exactly. It may not have any effect - again, illegal contracts cannot be enforced. Period. As a practical matter, and in an open court trial, however, it would certainly make all the owners look bad, possibly open the owners (including DS) up to "bad faith claims", may even allow the players to reopen their collusion suit, and certainly would piss off the players (who would probably remember it 10 years from now when the CBA comes up).

Are the Skins legally correct in asserting that there is no substantive basis for sanctioning them? Based on the facts that have come out and the language cited from the 2006 & 2012 CBA's and NFL Charter/By-laws (thanks Hoophead!), I am about as certain of that as a I can be. There may be language in the documents that provides the authority, but it isn't in any of the places one would expect to find such language and there is plenty of language indicating that there was no authority for the salary cap adjustment.

Is it in their best interests to pursue a remedy through a lawsuit or other formal action? Given the nasty consequences that could occur even if they prevail, I am pretty sure that I would advise them to use that as an absolute last resort.

First off, imagine the implications for the league if one of it's owners had stood up and started screaming "collusion" in the middle of the labor battle. The union would practically own the league at that point, and I can't even imagine the kind of repercussions for us if that had happened. You could forget anything like the Griffin trade ever happening, for starters.

More to the point, whatever warnings were given were verbal and likely vague (they would have to be for legal reasons, I would think). The Redskins would likely say that they interpreted the warnings as telling them not to do anything improper, which they didn't. And, given the way other contracts were being handled, they didn't see anything untoward going on throughout the NFL.

So, the Redskins would probably say that the first indication they had that any kind of collusion was going on was the punishment being handed down. And I suspect that that is pretty close to being the absolute truth.

[mlmpetert]

NFLPA re-appoints DeMaurice Smith | ProFootballTalk

[MTK]

Redskins hope to rally support at league meetings | ProFootballTalk