D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[mredskins]

I think Zorn might have worked since he inherited a decent team at the time. Now to ask this virgin head couch to rebuild a whole franchise, I think you are asking too much of him. Here is where you need a Cower type person who couches and does front office. Vinny needs to go. IF we are going to change gears do it right after the season give Cower or who ever enough time to evaluate the draft and FA.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

There's no quit in a team that gets down 17-0 and then comes back to basically tie the game.

I'd say a team has quit when it gets down 17-0 to the Bengals in the first place.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think Blache and Bugel will almost definitely retire (remember Blache wanted to at the end of last season). Hixon, Smith, and probably Palermo will be let go. Gray will move up to DC. Olivadotti will take over the line or possibly special teams. Jim Lind comes over from the Seahawks to take over Buge's spot.

Smootsmack...
This is ballsy speculation...I will hold you to this.
Blache AND Bugel retire?
Wow.

I can see smith and hixon being cut though...they have done a poor job

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'd say a team has quit when it gets down 17-0 to the Bengals in the first place.

If it quit it wouldn't have scored 13 points. Bottom line, Sellers screwed up with that fumble.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Smootsmack...
This is ballsy speculation...I will hold you to this.
Blache AND Bugel retire?
Wow.

I can see smith and hixon being cut though...they have done a poor job

If the running game was our strength and we ran the Gibbs system with the WCO on passing. Then the most logical choice would be to bring in Russ Grimm not the Seahawks OL coach. Why change the strength of your team with yet another running game system?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'd say a team has quit when it gets down 17-0 to the Bengals in the first place.

Wait, so we quit, but then decided not to quit?

Can we stop throwing the term "Quit" around when that's clearly not the problem?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

it's like going to a guy you hired to be a manager and making him CEO. Snyder made a mistake, and he'll try to undo it ASAP. I bet he offers Cowher $10 million/year.

Maybe it's like some of the other successful hires in the NFL that were never coordinators....I sure don't recall anyone saying Snyder made a mistake when we beat the Eagles & Cowboys early on.

Reality check. We'll finish 7-9 or 8-8, probably 8-8. With all the changes in the off-season and the loss of ST late last year most of us predicted 7-9 to 9-7 and we're fans. Most of the "experts" had us in the 6-10 range.

- We have a young QB, who IS PROGRESSING (check his year-end stats vs. last year, barring a terrible display against PHI & SF) despite what many fans say. He's got a cannon arm, is fairly mobile, appears to be learning the system, doesn't throw many picks, and has improved his release. He needs to protect the ball a bit better (pre-throw) IMO though. If you look at M. Hasselbeck's progression in the WCO under Homgren/Zorn and compare Campbell, next year should be excellent.
- We have an aging OL and unfortunately it's caught up with us this year. If Samuels can have a solid year next year, Heyer develops into a starting RT, Thomas can give us a solid year and we pick up a C and/or G/T we have guys who can provide depth.
- We have small, speed WRs who are solid, but not "playmaker" or gamechanging WRs. Opposing D's don't scheme to "stop Moss & ARE". We have good young rookie WR talent. Not a good recipe for this year. IMO our WR coach is not very good.
- Good FB
- Very good RB with no depth. Portis does have a stamina issue, I know on more than a few occasions he's gotten us down inside the Red Zone with great plays and then goes to the sideline for a "blow". Great backs don't do that, they find a way to finish the drive.
- TE is very good, but not a physical threat (Gates, Gonzalez).
- Our DL is pedestrian. We desperately need a DT (Haynesworth?) who can collapse the pocket and a LDE who is very good. If we can make those two acquisitions in the off-season our D could be a scary unit (in a good way) next year.
- MLB excellent, OLBs solid, but not anything that scares opposing Os.
- Secondary is young and very good, IMO a bright spot if we can re-sign Hall and he doesn't become a locker room cancer.
- Special teams are poor, if the P or K isn't screwing up, someone makes a key penalty. We need a new ST coach...bad.

All this does not a playoff team make. We're like a majority of the NFL, a team with some very solid players, but with holes.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

If the running game was our strength and we ran the Gibbs system with the WCO on passing. Then the most logical choice would be to bring in Russ Grimm not the Seahawks OL coach. Why change the strength of your team with yet another running game system?

We changed the running schemes. This year.

We have new running schemes. We have new running schemes. We have new running schemes. We have new running schemes. We have new running schemes. We have new running schemes. We have new running schemes.

I can not believe people do not know this by now.

Anyway, I agree with your post entirely SF. I just had to set the record straight.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Smootsmack...
This is ballsy speculation...I will hold you to this.
Blache AND Bugel retire?
Wow.

I can see smith and hixon being cut though...they have done a poor job

I agree with SS. There will be a major overhaul with assistants this off-season.

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Maybe it's like some of the other successful hires in the NFL that were never coordinators....I sure don't recall anyone saying Snyder made a mistake when we beat the Eagles & Cowboys early on.

Reality check. We'll finish 7-9 or 8-8, probably 8-8. With all the changes in the off-season and the loss of ST late last year most of us predicted 7-9 to 9-7 and we're fans. Most of the "experts" had us in the 6-10 range.

- We have a young QB, who IS PROGRESSING (check his year-end stats vs. last year, barring a terrible display against PHI & SF) despite what many fans say. He's got a cannon arm, is fairly mobile, appears to be learning the system, doesn't throw many picks, and has improved his release. He needs to protect the ball a bit better (pre-throw) IMO though. If you look at M. Hasselbeck's progression in the WCO under Homgren/Zorn and compare Campbell, next year should be excellent.
- We have an aging OL and unfortunately it's caught up with us this year. If Samuels can have a solid year next year, Heyer develops into a starting RT, Thomas can give us a solid year and we pick up a C and/or G/T we have guys who can provide depth.
- We have small, speed WRs who are solid, but not "playmaker" or gamechanging WRs. Opposing D's don't scheme to "stop Moss & ARE". We have good young rookie WR talent. Not a good recipe for this year. IMO our WR coach is not very good.
- Good FB
- Very good RB with no depth. Portis does have a stamina issue, I know on more than a few occasions he's gotten us down inside the Red Zone with great plays and then goes to the sideline for a "blow". Great backs don't do that, they find a way to finish the drive.
- TE is very good, but not a physical threat (Gates, Gonzalez).
- Our DL is pedestrian. We desperately need a DT (Haynesworth?) who can collapse the pocket and a LDE who is very good. If we can make those two acquisitions in the off-season our D could be a scary unit (in a good way) next year.
- MLB excellent, OLBs solid, but not anything that scares opposing Os.
- Secondary is young and very good, IMO a bright spot if we can re-sign Hall and he doesn't become a locker room cancer.
- Special teams are poor, if the P or K isn't screwing up, someone makes a key penalty. We need a new ST coach...bad.

All this does not a playoff team make. We're like a majority of the NFL, a team with some very solid players, but with holes.

You make some good points and give me some hope. But, the fact we couldn't get up for and hang with a 1-11-1 team says something is broken beyond repair. As for Campbell, his QB rating in the second half is much lower than in the first half. That trend cannot occur next year. He should be getting better.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I agree with SS. There will be a major overhaul with assistants this off-season.

This is the NFL, there is always a fall guy. Gregg Williams is the fall guy in Jacksonville. There will a fall guy or two here. Blache has not impressed me.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Wait, so we quit, but then decided not to quit?

Can we stop throwing the term "Quit" around when that's clearly not the problem?

"Clearly" not the problem? I don't see how anyone can say that.

If scoring 13 points against one of the worst teams in the league is all it takes to prove to you that they truly are Spartans, then have at it.

They stunk up the joint with the playoffs on the line against the Cincinnati Bengals. So yes, in my book this team has quit.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

You make some good points and give me some hope. But, the fact we couldn't get up for and hang with a 1-11-1 team says something is broken beyond repair. As for Campbell, his QB rating in the second half is much lower than in the first half. That trend cannot occur next year. He should be getting better.

Don't think that M. Lewis isn't on the hot seat and coaching for his job right now, also the Bengals players are playing for contracts too. They were at home and we turned the ball over.

JC's QB rating will be lower in the second half because the OL played poorly in the second half, not because of anything he's done wrong.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I've seen a few posts in this thread, from SS and skinsfan69 in particular, stating unequivocally (and I'm paraphrasing here) that you don't get rid of Zorn after one season under any circumstances.

I could not disagree with you more.

If Zorn guides this team to wins against the Bengals and Niners, finishing at 9-7, then he certainly deserves to keep his job. I want to make that very clear first and foremost.

But if we drop all 3 remaining games? Lose to the Bengals and the 49ers? Collapse down the stretch? Start to lose the locker room? Finish 7-9 after making the playoffs last year while keeping the same defense and the same running game? No thank you, that's ineffective leadership.

Leadership positions are not the kind where you need to learn on the job. You either have a clue how to lead men or you don't. Offensive schemes, sure, they take time. But not leadership. You don't lose the locker room if you're a good leader.

But should offensive schemes even take all that long when all you have to do is install a passing offense? I'm willing to give Zorn two years to produce a passing offense worth a darn, a la Matt Hasselbeck. But he better get this locker room back in a hurry, or all the offensive scheming in the world won't matter. If you can't lead men then you can't be a head coach in the NFL.

Zorn needs to stop saying things like "we just didn't execute" in the papers. If you keep selling your players out like that and deflect the criticisms of yourself, you're going to lose the players' respect.

I don't like kneejerk reactions applied to coaching changes, but there are times when waiting and being patient reaches the point of diminishing returns. Once we found out Spurrier couldn't lead men, we wanted him out and couldn't wait until it happened. Zorn is NOT at that point, but if he doesn't get the locker room back and beat the sorry ass Bengals and Niners, he might be.

Leader first, scheme second.

Man,
When I start reading assessments like this by our moderator prior to the cincy game, it doesn't bode well for Zorn...Mods tend to be kool-aid drinkers...(don't kill me for saying it)...I've seen a few on this good thread that are concerned...schneed makes a good point.
We would have been better off cutting Spurrier after 1 year since it took several years to recover from his crap.....AND it took a hall of fame coach to do it....unfortunately, none of those are available...I sure hope the next 2 games show incredible creativity and fire from the team, 2 things that are sorely needed from Zorn right now

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

"Clearly" not the problem? I don't see how anyone can say that.

If scoring 13 points against one of the worst teams in the league is all it takes to prove to you that they truly are Spartans, then have at it.

They stunk up the joint with the playoffs on the line against the Cincinnati Bengals. So yes, in my book this team has quit.

Your evidence that they've quit though is bordering on conspiracy theory, and at best, is weak.

Performance in a single game is not evidence for much, especially an outlandish accusation.

When the Bucs were down 14-0 to the Lions just two weeks ago, I guess the only logical conclusion, according to you, is that they quit on Jon Gruden. Nevermind the rest of the game. The start of the game on the road apparently is evidence enough for you to draw a conclusion (that isn't necessarily supported by the evidence anyway).