The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're completely missing the point, and you're doing it without evidence, which is worse.

The point is that I/we simply don't know how good the defense is going to be this year. It might be top ten. It might be bottom ten. It's probably going to be somewhere in between. We need to see more before passing judgment on the virtues of the 3-4. All people are doing in this thread is passing judgment prematurely.

Last year's defense was worse through three games, and all we did last year was write them a pass because of the offense -- which was more productive in both losses last year than it was in both losses this year.

It's not hard to see that closed mindedness re: the 3-4 is causing people to point out that this year's defense had sucked when the EXACT same people were defending just a poor coaching/playing effort last year because we had a 4-3.

I'm not saying that Haslett is necessarily going to make the adjustments that make this defense passable, I'm just saying that if your issue here was that the defense is talent-loaded and underachieving...where the hell was everyone the last two years what that was PRECISELY the case in our 4-3.

I'm not sure how you're quantifying "worse" but I'd be interested in knowing. Of course we don't know how good the defense is going to be this year and I don't think people here are really trying to make that point. Adjustments and scheme changes are fine and expected, but no was expecting the defense to fall off the cliff to 32nd in the league, GTripp.

We don't need sixteen games to see that this ain't working and Haslett appears to be in over his head big time. It's not just a personnel issue, it's a coaching issue from what I can see. Can I prove that it's a coaching issue with stats? Hell no. Seventeen of the thirty two teams run a 3-4 scheme, yet we're making it look like algebra.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're completely missing the point, and you're doing it without evidence, which is worse.

The point is that I/we simply don't know how good the defense is going to be this year. It might be top ten. It might be bottom ten. It's probably going to be somewhere in between. We need to see more before passing judgment on the virtues of the 3-4. All people are doing in this thread is passing judgment prematurely.

Last year's defense was worse through three games, and all we did last year was write them a pass because of the offense -- which was more productive in both losses last year than it was in both losses this year.

It's not hard to see that closed mindedness re: the 3-4 is causing people to point out that this year's defense had sucked when the EXACT same people were defending just a poor coaching/playing effort last year because we had a 4-3.

I'm not saying that Haslett is necessarily going to make the adjustments that make this defense passable, I'm just saying that if your issue here was that the defense is talent-loaded and underachieving...where the hell was everyone the last two years what that was PRECISELY the case in our 4-3.

So you think Andre Carter is a 3-4 outside backer? Nope. Yet he's one of our best pass rushers. Where has he been? Is Haynesworth a nose tackle? Nope. Is Rocky an inside backer? No. Where is Chris Wilson? Do we even have a true nose tackle? No. Are Hall and Rogers zone corners? No. So yes it's very early but there are just too many indications that this is going to be a crappy defense cause guys seem to be out of position.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

So you think Andre Carter is a 3-4 outside backer? Nope. Yet he's one of our best pass rushers. Where has he been? Is Haynesworth a nose tackle? Nope. Is Rocky an inside backer? No. Where is Chris Wilson? Do we even have a true nose tackle? No. Are Hall and Rogers zone corners? No. So yes it's very early but there are just too many indications that this is going to be a crappy defense cause guys seem to be out of position.

I agreed with everything you said except this. Corners have to be able to play zone and man period. That is what a corner does. Either you can play corner or you can't. Hall and Rogers can play corner. The scheme needs to be adjusted because they are getting beat and it isn't their fault most of the time.

[MTK]

Green Bay got off to a rough start last year while transitioning to the 3-4 and ended up alright by the end of the year. Gotta give things time.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Angry

I agreed with everything you said except this. Corners have to be able to play zone and man period. That is what a corner does. Either you can play corner or you can't. Hall and Rogers can play corner. The scheme needs to be adjusted because they are getting beat and it isn't their fault most of the time.

They're both playing like shit. Who were those scrubs that were beating them yesterday?? What about letting Walter go off last week? I think they need to let them play more bump and run and let them be athletes.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Angry

I agreed with everything you said except this. Corners have to be able to play zone and man period. That is what a corner does. Either you can play corner or you can't. Hall and Rogers can play corner. The scheme needs to be adjusted because they are getting beat and it isn't their fault most of the time.

Just to build off this I think we need to be clear here that the 3-4 change really only involves the front seven. As far as the secondary goes it's still the same. You're either in man or zone or some combo.

[hail_2_da_skins]

I was at the game, 10 rows up from the field. The Rams outplayed and outcoached the Redskins. From field level, it was very obvious how the Rams were attacking the Skins. Where were the adjustments? They sealed off the inside linebackers and ran right at the outside linebackers with success. Even when Steven Jackson went down, they kept doing the same thing and the Skins could not stop it. I don't know what the Rams third down conversion percentage was, but it had to be high. When Bradford did pass, it was quick three step drops, in front of the cornerbacks and safeties, nullifying the linebacker blitzes. Where were the adjustments? ... Oh, I said that before. Coaching is all about adjustments. I didn't see many.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm not sure how you're quantifying "worse" but I'd be interested in knowing. Of course we don't know how good the defense is going to be this year and I don't think people here are really trying to make that point. Adjustments and scheme changes are fine and expected, but no was expecting the defense to fall off the cliff to 32nd in the league, GTripp.

We don't need sixteen games to see that this ain't working and Haslett appears to be in over his head big time. It's not just a personnel issue, it's a coaching issue from what I can see. Can I prove that it's a coaching issue with stats? Hell no. Seventeen of the thirty two teams run a 3-4 scheme, yet we're making it look like algebra.

thats my biggest gripe right there. yes carter and orakpo might not be lb's but they are both damn talented as well as the rest of our d. we don't have the right guys for each position but with the talent level we have we shoudln't look this bad.

can anybody tell me anything haslett has ever really accomplished as a hc or dc other than lead the rams to a victory over the skins twice. i really don't know much about him, but after reading a couple things his success rate doesn't seem to be very good

[calia]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Green Bay got off to a rough start last year while transitioning to the 3-4 and ended up alright by the end of the year. Gotta give things time.

I don't disagree, but what concerns me so much today is that they didn't play with any heart at all. I just felt like I witnessed a meltdown without any player shoing a sense of urgency to get things back on track. No one -- not even London Fletcher -- seemed to step up and put pressure on themselves or others to get things going (true on offense as well). How many times did we have the Rams at 3rd and long, and then they'd convert? How many 3 and outs did we have in the second half? The whole second half was just a mess. And our guys looked gassed.

On offense, we now know how important Trent Williams is to our fortunes -- Stephon Heyer was simply terrible. And our D didn't react well at all. I cannot be the only one to notice that when Bradford switched to a two-step drop and getting the ball our really fast (which he did for much of the second half), our DBs remained in soft coverage, and so they were getting 6-7 yards a pop.

[skinsfaninok]

D Hall basically said Bradford owned us, and he continues to make excuse after excuse.

[aceinthehouse]

If Haslet is smart,he will have L.Landry spy Vick the whole game...

Not only is he the fastest guy on defense,but he plays up in the box and used for blitzes...

You would THINK..that Haslet will use him to spy Vick the whole game and roll to whatever side Vick is on and play a Zone type of Spy...to prevent the Vick scrambles and long runs...

Which probably means he'll have Landry one-on-one with D.Jackson in man-to-man coverage..lol

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Just to build off this I think we need to be clear here that the 3-4 change really only involves the front seven. As far as the secondary goes it's still the same. You're either in man or zone or some combo.

True, but how the secondary is designed to play when Haslett sends 5 or 6 at the qb seems to be an issue.

We've been through this before, in 06 we all questioned why Rogers was 10 yards off of every reciever & seemed to give up so many short to mid range routes. I would almost go as far to say that the defensive calls are the problem, because our blitzing isn't very effective.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by calia

I don't disagree, but what concerns me so much today is that they didn't play with any heart at all. I just felt like I witnessed a meltdown without any player shoing a sense of urgency to get things back on track. No one -- not even London Fletcher -- seemed to step up and put pressure on themselves or others to get things going (true on offense as well). How many times did we have the Rams at 3rd and long, and then they'd convert? How many 3 and outs did we have in the second half? The whole second half was just a mess. And our guys looked gassed.

On offense, we now know how important Trent Williams is to our fortunes -- Stephon Heyer was simply terrible. And our D didn't react well at all. I cannot be the only one to notice that when Bradford switched to a two-step drop and getting the ball our really fast (which he did for much of the second half), our DBs remained in soft coverage, and so they were getting 6-7 yards a pop.

It wasn't just Heyer though. Brown was awful. Did they do their homework on this guy? Cause it didn't look like New Orleans was trying very hard to re sign him.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

I was at the game, 10 rows up from the field. The Rams outplayed and outcoached the Redskins. From field level, it was very obvious how the Rams were attacking the Skins. Where were the adjustments? They sealed off the inside linebackers and ran right at the outside linebackers with success. Even when Steven Jackson went down, they kept doing the same thing and the Skins could not stop it. I don't know what the Rams third down conversion percentage was, but it had to be high. When Bradford did pass, it was quick three step drops, in front of the cornerbacks and safeties, nullifying the linebacker blitzes. Where were the adjustments? ... Oh, I said that before. Coaching is all about adjustments. I didn't see many.

That's about what I was thinking. The blitzing really backfired. In Haslett's defense he probably thought that Bradford couldn't make those reads quick enough, but he did.

[calia]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

It wasn't just Heyer though. Brown was awful. Did they do their homework on this guy? Cause it didn't look like New Orleans was trying very hard to re sign him.

I agree; there was blame to go around. One 3rd down conversion?! Heyer did have, if I counted correctly, 3 holding penalties which killed drives. It felt like more.

If this team can bounce back next week, it will show some character -- character that was entirely absent this week -- things could get back on track. Obviously, the offensive struggles leave the D on the field far too long. And yesterday, they looked exhausted. We're dead last in the league in just about every defensive category now, and that's a pretty dramatic fall off.