Trayvon Martin Case

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

He's racist sorry but imo he doesn't like black people and he Martin fitted the profile. And yes hispanics can be racist towards anyone just like whites and blacks and native Americans can be

But what about him being a registered democrat and tutoring black kids for free? Not saying I disagree, but I'm sure someone will probably bring it up.

I can't say for sure about the racist angle, but he definitely profiled Martin. I think Zimmerman could be defined as at least having sociopathic qualities. What do you think?

This is the DSM-IV's definition of of sociopathy:

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having
hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

But what about him being a registered democrat and tutoring black kids for free? Not saying I disagree, but I'm sure someone will probably bring it up.

I can't say for sure about the racist angle, but he definitely profiled Martin. I think Zimmerman could be defined as at least having sociopathic qualities. What do you think?

This is the DSM-IV's definition of of sociopathy:

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having
hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

Well when your having a crime problem in your neighborhood and the crime has been done buy young black males it becomes real easy to profile. Right or wrong that's just human nature.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well when your having a crime problem in your neighborhood and the crime has been done buy young black males it becomes real easy to profile. Right or wrong that's just human nature.

Its one thing to profile and call the cops or profile and keep an eye on. Profiling while carrying a weapon on you and then confronting makes it seem like you're looking for trouble.

Dude was trying too hard to be a hero.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

But what about him being a registered democrat and tutoring black kids for free? Not saying I disagree, but I'm sure someone will probably bring it up.

I can't say for sure about the racist angle, but he definitely profiled Martin. I think Zimmerman could be defined as at least having sociopathic qualities. What do you think?

This is the DSM-IV's definition of of sociopathy:

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having
hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

Awesome post Dynamite

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

He's racist sorry but imo he doesn't like black people and he Martin fitted the profile. And yes hispanics can be racist towards anyone just like whites and blacks and native Americans can be

How do you know that. I guess you did not see the back guy defending him or hear about the black kids he mentors. That does not sound racist. People just like throwing that word around way too much.

[DynamiteRave]

Here's additional footage. Longer than the one in the news report.

[DynamiteRave]

Source: Sanford police chief, state attorney made Zimmerman 'no charge' call in person

Well that seems odd.

Also didn't know Zimmerman's father was a retired supreme court judge.. In Virginia.

Eh...

[Chico23231]

Rocking my hoodie at work today...seeing a couple smiles and a couple frowns. ill deal with the frowns later

[RedskinRat]

If we're going to level allegations of racism I'd like to volunteer this chap as a bigot and a racist:

Two young white men are murdered, POTUS doesn't respond.

Apparently he can't imagine these boys being his sons.

[12thMan]

Classic case of racial profiling. It seems "Stand Your Ground" should apply to Trayvon Martin, not George Zimmerman.

D.C. had a strong showing at the Trayvon rally last weekend.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Classic case of racial profiling. It seems "Stand Your Ground" should apply to Trayvon Martin, not George Zimmerman.

D.C. had a strong showing at the Trayvon rally last weekend.

Assuming Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation, it certainly would.

I am glad there are some many people gifted with retroactive telepathy and can clear up, beyond any reasonable doubt, what Zimmerman's thought processes were as this confrontation unfolded. ... I was just guessing about it.

Prove Zimmerman wouldn't have done the same thing to a tattoed, white (hispanic, asian blah blah blah) kid dressed and acting in the same manner as Martin and I'll buy the profiling argument as a factual conclusion that can be stated with certainty. Otherwise everyone is just speculating about Zimmerman's state of mind.

Again, so my position is clear, although legally allowed to do so, Zimmerman was wrong to be toting a gun around while on a Neighbor Watch patrol. He exercised bad judgment in following when the dispatcher said it was unneeded. The law as written is letting a potential illegal and unjust action go unpunished. ... and most importantly, even if he started the physical altercation, Martin's death is a tragic event and the law's failure to provide for a satisfactory and just result compounds the tragedy.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Assuming Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation, it certainly would.

I am glad there are some many people gifted with retroactive telepathy and can clear up, beyond any reasonable doubt, what Zimmerman's thought processes were as this confrontation unfolded. ... I was just guessing about it.

Prove Zimmerman wouldn't have done the same thing to a tattoed, white (hispanic, asian blah blah blah) kid dressed and acting in the same manner as Martin and I'll buy the profiling argument as a factual conclusion that can be stated with certainty. Otherwise everyone is just speculating about Zimmerman's state of mind.

Again, so my position is clear, although legally allowed to do so, Zimmerman was wrong to be toting a gun around while on a Neighbor Watch patrol. He exercised bad judgment in following when the dispatcher said it was unneeded. The law as written is letting a potential illegal and unjust action go unpunished. ... and most importantly, even if he started the physical altercation, Martin's death is a tragic event and the law's failure to provide for a satisfactory and just result compounds the tragedy.

He called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." I think we have passed the realm of speculating about his state of mind.

What you are basically saying Stand Your Ground Law allows me to stalk you and your family and if you were to ever approach me I would be at liberty to shoot you dead and vice versa. Am I to understand that so long as I feel threatened the Stand Your Ground Law trumps all other laws regarding what constitutes murder? What constitutes self-defense and retreat? Can anyone ever be liable for murder in the state of Florida in any confrontational situation? Would it matter who approached who first? If you and I were to get into a bar fight because I uttered fighting words and I ended up gunning you down should I be held liable for murder? How would this situation be different than what happened here?

Your logic matrix is twisted because the implication of what you are saying are very serious and quite frankly antithesis of the letter as well as the spirit of the law. At worst Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder and if you were on the jury I would hope you would have the sensibility to realize this.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

He called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." I think we have passed the realm of speculating about his state of mind.

So if this kid is trying car door handles, or checking houses for unlocked windows that's NOT suspicious?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

So if this kid is trying car door handles, or checking houses for unlocked windows that's NOT suspicious?

That's called reporting a crime? Did he report a crime?

You guys just keep the ****ing poll moving to justify this shit. From switching to black on black crime, to Trayvon was no saint, to some other stupid shit that doesn't matter.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

He called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." I think we have passed the realm of speculating about his state of mind.

Maybe you think so, but then, you don't live in my neighborhood. We have had elementary age kids commit crimes - vandalism, breaking an entry, and, yes, assaults (happened three or four years ago three elementary age kids mugged an elderly lady (80'ish) while she was walking to the bus stop in the afternoon). It doesn't happen often (including the assault, I'd say around 10 times in my 18 years in the neighborhood), but it does happen. Yes, little kids are curious. Sometimes they are just being kids, but sometimes they are up to things beyond just childish curiousity or "hijinks". What's the difference? Hard to say ... Since I always try to be reasonable and go with my gut, I am probably impermissibly profiling.

Originally Posted by saden1

What you are basically saying Stand Your Ground Law allows me to stalk you and your family and if you were to ever approach me I would be at liberty to shoot you dead and vice versa. Am I to understand that so long as I feel threatened the Stand Your Ground Law trumps all other laws regarding what constitutes murder? What constitutes self-defense and retreat? Can anyone ever be liable for murder in the state of Florida in any confrontational situation? Would it matter who approached who first? If you and I were to get into a bar fight because I uttered fighting words and I ended up gunning you down should I be held liable for murder? How would this situation be different than what happened here?

No, what I am saying is that no one has the right to initiate a physical attack. If I just "approach you" after you "stalked" me, you would not have the right to shoot me. If you shoot me after I "approached you" in response to your "stalking" me AND I am the first to either physically attack you in a manner where you reasonably believe your life to be threatened or credibly threaten you with imminent physical harm likely to cause serious injury or death --- then, yes, you can use deadly force to protect yourself. Neither one of us, however, is allowed to begin the physical altercation regardless if I do or say something short of initiating the physical contact or using legally recognized "fighting words".

If Zimmerman approached and physically assaulted (pushed, bumped, shoved, hit etc.) Martin first (or brandished the gun, or used "fighting words" first), it's outright murder period. You don't get to pull a gun when you start losing a fight you started. If, however, all Zimmerman did was "stalk and approach" Martin, Martin can't can't can't throw the first punch and this is exactly what Zimmerman has alleged that Martin did. Zimmerman has said that Martin physically attacked Zimmerman first. As I set out several posts ago - in Florida, that creates a presumption he was attacked.

All I have ever said in this matter is, we don't know who initiated the physical altercation. At this point, that fact is simply surmise based on fragments of evidence. My opinion at this point, is that Zimmerman escalated the conversation and crossed the line first. However, I just don't know to the point where I am willing to ruin another person's life - it's close but I am just not there yet. Given the lack of evidence about the start of the fight, I may never be.

Originally Posted by saden1

Your logic matrix is twisted because the implication of what you are saying are very serious and quite frankly antithesis of the letter as well as the spirit of the law. At worst Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder and if you were on the jury I would hope you would have the sensibility to realize this.

My logic matrix is fine thank you. Go back and read my post No. 212. Personally, I think Zimmerman should have to get on the stand assert and prove the affirmative defense of "self-defense and reasonable belief of serious injury or death" under oath and subject to cross examination. If a jury says "okay, we believe you", I am good with that - if they say "we don't believe you", I am also good with that. Unfortunately, under Florida's self-defense immunity law, it doesn't look like that will happen.