Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

And for the record, I'm not sure any hot coaching candidate would turn down the ability to coach RG3. If he did, we wouldn't want him anyway.

We definitely wouldn't want him because he'd have to be an idiot.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

So, to hell with scope. I'd take Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher tomorrow. I'd take Parcells tomorrow too. Outside the legacy coaches you just have to look around the league at teams that are getting it right.

Aren't you a little nervous that big picture, we'd be making the same mistake there we did with Shanahan.

I think you have to get someone unproven. Not Zorn-level unproven, but maybe Todd Bowles unproven?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Well, it's pretty hard to limit the scope to ending one regime, but not think about what replaces it.

Somebody made a pretty brilliant observation that RG3 (alone) will attract coaching talent. I think Snyder should look at it this way. We have something very special to offer.

So, to hell with scope. I'd take Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher tomorrow. I'd take Parcells tomorrow too. Outside the legacy coaches you just have to look around the league at teams that are getting it right.

You have a problem with "living off his overrated past" Shanahan, yet you'd instantly go after Cowher or Gruden?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You have a problem with "living off his overrated past" Shanahan, yet you'd instantly go after Cowher or Gruden?

Yes, because they aren't two bit moron knuckleheaded egotistic sacks of dog shit that the rest of the league has read the book on and knows their moves 2 moves in advance, just running their teams into the ground for no reason. That's the problem with Shanny.

[ethat001]

Why is this such a pressing issue after having one of the best offenses in the league and almost beating the NY Giants last week? Isn't everyone allowed a bad game?

There are two threads on this, but clearly the better question is should Haslett be fired. At least that question would make sense.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

Good post I agree

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by mooby

Yes, because they aren't two bit moron knuckleheaded egotistic sacks of dog shit that the rest of the league has read the book on and knows their moves 2 moves in advance, just running their teams into the ground for no reason. That's the problem with Shanny.

........Is there nothing more persuasive than well founded, empirically derived logic?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Why is this such a pressing issue after having one of the best offenses in the league and almost beating the NY Giants last week? Isn't everyone allowed a bad game?

There are two threads on this, but clearly the better question is should Haslett be fired. At least that question would make sense.

I don't believe that Shanahan should be fired or that he's been "totally outcoached all season" or that this isn't a "serious football team" or any of that other nonsense. But it's fine if people want to have speculative discussions. I mean why else be on a message board

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You have a problem with "living off his overrated past" Shanahan, yet you'd instantly go after Cowher or Gruden?

Not quite go after. If any three of Cowher, Parcells or Gruden called the Redskins to say they wanted to come back from "retirement" and coach this team, with this QB, I think you talk to them. With Mike, it was always about his ego, but I think his coming out of retirement had more to do with being fired from Denver. That's more like spite, and spite only goes so far. Parcells has that rep as a guy with a big ego. I never heard Cowher or Gruden described that way, though you'd know more about it to be sure. What I think is that those guys love football. I think Mike's still in the game because of his ego and spite, and I remember saying that before Snyder hired him.

But GTripp could be right about finding that rising talent, future Lombardi winner too.

And for the love of all that's decent, please don't try to put Kyle in that category.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

[53Fan]

I don't know how anyone could disagree that getting rid of Haslett would be an improvement. Does anyone on this board think he's done a good job?

[GTripp0012]

Firing Shanahan for performance (of the team) is no different than firing Haslett for performance (of the defense), except that it actually signifies the first meaningful step in building a winner, instead of window-dressing for the sake of window-dressing.

[53Fan]

I damn sure wouldn't let Mike pick the DC. Seen that movie.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

New head coach usually means there are more changes underway. I imagine if Mike goes, Kyle goes, which means a new offensive scheme to learn. I doubt Haslett sees another year here after this debacle, so we may or may not be switching back to 4-3 which if we did, means a new defensive scheme to learn and 3-4 with the Skins is all some of these guys know.

Considering how awful the defense has been I see defensive overhaul in the future along with depth signings.

So basically we're back in complete rebuilding mode. Again.

I'd rather them fire Haslett, fill in the gaps on defense with the draft and free agency, see how the Shanahan's fair next year, then take another look at him coaching here.