Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

I'm curious -- when did it become my job as a fan to suggest alternatives? My job is to cheer the victories, boo the losses and then pontificate about the respective greatness/worthlessness of the team. Saying that you don't buy into the Shanaplan isn't hating. If it is, then why was the question asked in the first place? Do you just want a bunch of yes men on this forum or people who challenge the common mentality with admittedly imperfect arguments.

Building something with as many moving pieces as a football team in an environment as volatile as the NFL is absolutely a multi-year endeavor. But I'm allowed to be upset about the, somewhat, wasted year right? If not, let me know and I'll never say anything negative again.

I dont recall saying you were hating. You are more than welcome to quote me saying that. Until then, dont put words in my mouth. You have every right to your opinions, I have every right to disagree with you. Spare me the dramatics about never being negative again.

The fact is, the last two years is the first time that this team has tried to build a long term contender since Beathard and Gibbs. Gibbs II was about building a team to win now and putting cap affects into later years. That was never sustainable long term.

But lets be honest here, when looking at some of the most important pieces of a team. We are starting to get not only young, but good as well. The fact that we have a year 3 LT who is looking really good, a rookie QB and RB, Younger WR's outside of Moss. Those are good building blocks that will be around a long time. Does the OL need more improvements? Absolutely, but for the first time, some important components of our offense are not only young, but also good.

Complain about year 1 all you want, I do. I have always said McNabb was a mistake and that even though he talked about a long term plan of youth, he abandoned that plan in year 1 to try and win now. Year 2, what QB? As much as people complain about Rex/Beck, who else was he getting. The main ones available were Gabbert, Dalton, or Kapernick in the draft, or to sign Hasselbeck as a FA. OK so how much are we winning with any of them? Dalton/Kaepernick would easily have been best, but do we go to the playoffs last year with either? No we dont. Dalton would have gotten pummeled behind our Oline. Kaepernick needed to sit last year to help develop. Do we get RG3 if we draft either of those 3? No we dont. I personally believe that RG3 is head and shoulders above all of those, and even with the extra draft picks, going after him is worth it.

We have been bad for almost 20 years. Signs that the future will be better are important. And I saw those last year. Yeah, the record sucked, but we actually have started adding younger pieces. And the future looks good. I didnt buy into Shanny's plan at all in year 1. Because he preached youth and went for win now with a crap roster. But year 2 and 3 have been about building a team. Year 3 we are seeing those signs pretty clearly. To change now is a huge mistake.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

I dont recall saying you were hating. You are more than welcome to quote me saying that. Until then, dont put words in my mouth. You have every right to your opinions, I have every right to disagree with you. Spare me the dramatics about never being negative again.

The fact is, the last two years is the first time that this team has tried to build a long term contender since Beathard and Gibbs. Gibbs II was about building a team to win now and putting cap affects into later years. That was never sustainable long term.

But lets be honest here, when looking at some of the most important pieces of a team. We are starting to get not only young, but good as well. The fact that we have a year 3 LT who is looking really good, a rookie QB and RB, Younger WR's outside of Moss. Those are good building blocks that will be around a long time. Does the OL need more improvements? Absolutely, but for the first time, some important components of our offense are not only young, but also good.

Complain about year 1 all you want, I do. I have always said McNabb was a mistake and that even though he talked about a long term plan of youth, he abandoned that plan in year 1 to try and win now. Year 2, what QB? As much as people complain about Rex/Beck, who else was he getting. The main ones available were Gabbert, Dalton, or Kapernick in the draft, or to sign Hasselbeck as a FA. OK so how much are we winning with any of them? Dalton/Kaepernick would easily have been best, but do we go to the playoffs last year with either? No we dont. Dalton would have gotten pummeled behind our Oline. Kaepernick needed to sit last year to help develop. Do we get RG3 if we draft either of those 3? No we dont. I personally believe that RG3 is head and shoulders above all of those, and even with the extra draft picks, going after him is worth it.

We have been bad for almost 20 years. Signs that the future will be better are important. And I saw those last year. Yeah, the record sucked, but we actually have started adding younger pieces. And the future looks good. I didnt buy into Shanny's plan at all in year 1. Because he preached youth and went for win now with a crap roster. But year 2 and 3 have been about building a team. Year 3 we are seeing those signs pretty clearly. To change now is a huge mistake.

He didnt quote anybody when he said that. You are looking at another one of his posts.
edit: he quoted you in post 190 and practically agreed with you in his response. You quoted him in post 192 which I believe wasnt adressed to anyone in particular.

[rbanerjee23]

Lol, no dramatics -- I was just pointing out that it is absurd to get angry about people answering in the negative to the thread's original question.

Oh and ^^^ this. I didn't say you were hating, spare me the dramatics

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

Lol, no dramatics -- I was just pointing out that it is absurd to get angry about people answering in the negative to the thread's original question.

Oh and ^^^ this. I didn't say you were hating, spare me the dramatics

Why is it that disagreeing with you involves being angry? You even pointed it out about asking the question, why ask the question if no opinions are allowed. Dont say you have the right to your opinion and that im angry if mine disagrees with you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am not trying to take that away. I disagree with your assessment that a year is wasted because you didnt realize that neither Rex/Beck were actually good QB's. But he still did the right thing by waiting for the guy to jump for at QB.

Also, I never said that you said I was hating. You might want to re-read all of that.

@ Punch

He quoted me then made a second post. The second post just looks like a continuation of the first post to me.

[KLHJ2]

Ther is only one who is allowed to be Angry. I absolve everyone else from the emotion and title.

Its just football gents.

Edit: Actually I have no authority to do that...fight on gents!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Angry

Ther is only one who is allowed to be Angry. I absolve everyone else from the emotion and title.

Its just football gents.

Edit: Actually I have no authority to do that...fight on gents!

No authority from God to absolve us or from Matty and SS to moderate the thread?

[rbanerjee23]

Originally Posted by Angry

Ther is only one who is allowed to be Angry. I absolve everyone else from the emotion and title.

Its just football gents.

Edit: Actually I have no authority to do that...fight on gents!

I will abide by whatever authority, real or imagined, you possess. HTTR!!

[The Goat]

Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.

I think they are quite different players. Orakpo is better at rushing the QB and while he has gotten better, still seems a bit lost in open space. Jackson is better in open space than he is being a pash rusher. Jackson seems more like Kerrigan to me. Imo, both are more suited to a 4-3 OLB where they play a more all around game and the pash rushing is on blitzes. I always thought Orakpo would be a better 4-3 DE with his hand on the ground than a 3-4 OLB. Orakpo should have run duty and rushing the QB duty, not trying to cover a TE or RB in pass coverage.

I do agree it is time to push Orakpo. He needs to learn a swim or spin move and then let him loose on attacking the QB. But we cant afford to pay him top pash rusher money if he is a bull rusher who also spends some time being average at best in coverage.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.

I agree that Jackson is a phenomenal player but Orakpo is still the better pass rusher. Until Jackson makes a couple of trips to the pro bowl, he's not in Orakpo's class just yet.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

I think they are quite different players. Orakpo is better at rushing the QB and while he has gotten better, still seems a bit lost in open space. Jackson is better in open space than he is being a pash rusher. Jackson seems more like Kerrigan to me. Imo, both are more suited to a 4-3 OLB where they play a more all around game and the pash rushing is on blitzes. I always thought Orakpo would be a better 4-3 DE with his hand on the ground than a 3-4 OLB. Orakpo should have run duty and rushing the QB duty, not trying to cover a TE or RB in pass coverage.

I do agree it is time to push Orakpo. He needs to learn a swim or spin move and then let him loose on attacking the QB. But we cant afford to pay him top pash rusher money if he is a bull rusher who also spends some time being average at best in coverage.

I think both Orakpo and Kerrigan need to learn a couple of more moves. Watch tape of Miller or Ware or someone because both of them do the same bull rush move every time.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.

Jackson has had moments, but judging from the lack of pass rush this entire season Orakpo's pass rush is more important and vital to the team.

[punch it in]

Were gonna be one sick team in two years. If we can steal a championship or two before that ill take it. Am i getting greedy?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Jackson has had moments, but judging from the lack of pass rush this entire season Orakpo's pass rush is more important and vital to the team.

No doubt.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

I agree that Jackson is a phenomenal player but Orakpo is still the better pass rusher. Until Jackson makes a couple of trips to the pro bowl, he's not in Orakpo's class just yet.

There is so much more to LB position than pass rush. Unfortunately the sack stats is what gets all of the attention, big contracts and accolades. I would much rather have a LB with great instinct, solid against the run and pass coverage than a one trick pony LB that is only good at pass rush.
I think at times Orakpo is a liability.