Tom "Iceman" Brady

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Payton manning is a better passer while Tom Brady is a better leader. Both are fantastic QB's in their own respects and arguing this is completely useless since some people like the perfect passer and some like the stone cold nothing effects him leader.

What? Manning led his team down the field to win the game with a few minutes left. Brady had several chances to end the game and then threw an INT to end it. Better leader?

[Redskin]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

What? Manning led his team down the field to win the game with a few minutes left. Brady had several chances to end the game and then threw an INT to end it. Better leader?

Yea Brady is without a doubt a better leader then Manning, IMO thats really what has been holding Manning back from winning big. Manning has one good game after the last two he played where he threw what 7 picks? Brady was coaching other players out there and is striving a team to victory. Look what Brady has to work with compared to Manning with his 2 pro bowl recivers and Clark. No comparison.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Yea Brady is without a doubt a better leader then Manning, IMO thats really what has been holding Manning back from winning big. Manning has one good game after the last two he played where he threw what 7 picks? Brady was coaching other players out there and is striving a team to victory. Look what Brady has to work with compared to Manning with his 2 pro bowl recivers and Clark. No comparison.

You can make the argument that Mr. Freeze is a better leader but you would have to exclude yesterday's game from the discussion.

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Yea Brady is without a doubt a better leader then Manning, IMO thats really what has been holding Manning back from winning big. Manning has one good game after the last two he played where he threw what 7 picks? Brady was coaching other players out there and is striving a team to victory. Look what Brady has to work with compared to Manning with his 2 pro bowl recivers and Clark. No comparison.

I strongly disagree with this post. Manning is an excellent leader. He's the one who calls the plays, reads the defenses, audibles out of plays at the line of scrimmage, he is CONSTANTLY communicating with his team when he is on the field. Brady has a mastermind coach in Bellichick telling him what to do. And I don't want to take away from Dungee, but Mannning is the one who run's the offense, he gets to make a lot of big decisions that most QBs don't get to make.
Tom Brady is coaching players out there? Of course he's going to have to give brand new receivers some advice, what quarterback wouldn't do that, I mean, they're in a brand new system.
Ok, Manning has two great receivers, but in my opinion, until this year, Brady is the one who's team has been loaded with weapons. Every year they won the superbowl, he's had one of the BEST defenses in the league, why Manning's defenses have been average to below average. Brady's offensive line has always outplayed Manning's in past battles, plus it's not like Brady has had slouches at receiver in the past until this year. Plus, their TE Watson is just as good as Clark is.
Back to the defense again, just think about how the Pat's defenses were loaded with great players: Seymore, Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, McGinnest, and Law. See, once the Pat's dont have those players and the talent level overall is more even, COLTS WIN!
I guess my bottom line is that Tom Brady has been instrumental in winning 3 superbowls, but not anymore instrumental than the Pat's stingy defenses and great coaching. And as proved yesterday and last year in the Bronco's loss in the playoffs, when they don't have Charlie Weiss, Romeo Cornell, Ty Law, McGinnest, Harrison, Branch and Givens, Tom Brady is mortal.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

I strongly disagree with this post. Manning is an excellent leader. He's the one who calls the plays, reads the defenses, audibles out of plays at the line of scrimmage, he is CONSTANTLY communicating with his team when he is on the field. Brady has a mastermind coach in Bellichick telling him what to do. And I don't want to take away from Dungee, but Mannning is the one who run's the offense, he gets to make a lot of big decisions that most QBs don't get to make.
Tom Brady is coaching players out there? Of course he's going to have to give brand new receivers some advice, what quarterback wouldn't do that, I mean, they're in a brand new system.
Ok, Manning has two great receivers, but in my opinion, until this year, Brady is the one who's team has been loaded with weapons. Every year they won the superbowl, he's had one of the BEST defenses in the league, why Manning's defenses have been average to below average. Brady's offensive line has always outplayed Manning's in past battles, plus it's not like Brady has had slouches at receiver in the past until this year. Plus, their TE Watson is just as good as Clark is.
Back to the defense again, just think about how the Pat's defenses were loaded with great players: Seymore, Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, McGinnest, and Law. See, once the Pat's dont have those players and the talent level overall is more even, COLTS WIN!
I guess my bottom line is that Tom Brady has been instrumental in winning 3 superbowls, but not anymore instrumental than the Pat's stingy defenses and great coaching. And as proved yesterday and last year in the Bronco's loss in the playoffs, when they don't have Charlie Weiss, Romeo Cornell, Ty Law, McGinnest, Harrison, Branch and Givens, Tom Brady is mortal.

Great post.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Yea Brady is without a doubt a better leader then Manning, IMO thats really what has been holding Manning back from winning big. Manning has one good game after the last two he played where he threw what 7 picks? Brady was coaching other players out there and is striving a team to victory. Look what Brady has to work with compared to Manning with his 2 pro bowl recivers and Clark. No comparison.

They said last night that the Colts have 7 O players going to the pro Bowl. Both QB's played great last night and both threw a pick but Brady's came when he had no chance to make up for the mistake. This argument can go on for ever because one has the stats and the other has the rings which makes the argument on both sides. I still think Manning has to win a SB to back his stats. There was a reason Manning could not watch that final drive of the game because he knows that Brady has done it before but it was not his day.

[The Huddle]

Well, well, what do you know? Manning has taken his first step toward making all those big stats actually mean something in this debate. I’ve got to give credit where credit is due- I have stated that I believe pressure adversely affects Manning. Clearly that was not the case yesterday. Even after costing his team seven points, he pulled himself together and engineered the biggest comeback in conference championship game history. He was outstanding. Hu-rah.

Now, he’s one big game, one big win, from filling in that aching hole in his heart and on his resume. The Colts are a pretty solid favorite and, given the way their defense is playing, it would appear this isn’t asking too much. We shall see.

As for Brady, he remains the league’s best big game quarterback- and thus the best quarterback, period. No, he didn’t get it done yesterday. Yes, he failed in the clutch yesterday when attempting to lead his team downfield to a touchdown in the closing seconds. However, it is a tribute to just how accomplished Brady has become in these situations that despite the odds, most folks probably half-expected him to pull another one out anyway. He’s still not yet 30. In six seasons as a starter, he's led his team to three titles and to the brink of a fourth. He’ll be back.

But back to Manning. As great as he was yesterday, he isn’t there yet. One game can’t make up for all of his past failings, or erase Brady’s success in the same situations over the past 6 years. Again, he’s taken a solid step toward proving his supporters right, toward making the case that he, not Brady, is the game’s best QB- I can't deny that and won't attempt to for ego's sake. He can take another step against the Bears, and then this debate will get a lot more interesting.

[wilsowilso]

Man I thought this would be case closed. It almost was. Now I figure we have a legit debate. That was a pretty bad first part of the game for Manning and a Hall of Fame performance afterward. No Denying that. Manning was brilliant in the second half. It's only one game, but I have no doubt Manning has a ring now.

[SkinEmAll]

That was a great game. Great to see mr. iceman thaw out. I just wish the saints had a little more today, well i guess alot more, but it looks to be a great superbowl.

[GTripp0012]

Brady played very well today. Very efficient day, best performance of the playoffs for him so far. He didn't make the Patriots D break down.

Peyton Manning did.

The ultimate outcome wasn't shocking to me, it was just a very exciting well played game. I think this goes a long way to tear down Brady's fabricated image as unbreakable and Manning's fabricated image as a choker. Both are very good QBs, and Manning's still better. He's not better because of what he did today, he's better for what he's been doing his whole career.

[Gmanc711]

Tom Brady put up 27 points offensivley. Give me a break. He is probaboly the best quarterback in football because he wins. That is all that matters. People act like they got blown out, Brady is better than probaboly any quarterback in the history of our franchise (I really can comment on Baugh/Jurgenson, so I could be wrong there), I dont understand why people hate him just because he is good. (I by the way, wanted Manning to win, but people blaming Tom Brady for this are off their rockers)

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Brady has more poise than Manning. I value that more than anything else. Yes, even more than stats!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Brady has more poise than Manning. I value that more than anything else. Yes, even more than stats!

How do you know he has more poise? Is your poise-o-meter flying off the charts or something? What's your reasoning?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

How do you know he has more poise? Is your poise-o-meter flying off the charts or something? What's your reasoning?

Why yes, my poise-o-meter is flying off the charts.

Anyways, you said it yourself: Brady moves in the pocket better. That is just a result of not being rattled as easily as Manning. Not rattled as easily = more poise.

And, I'm sure that you'll come with some sorta stat that PROVES Manning is more poised. I just don't care for stats that much -- they're misleading (a poor way to prove an argument, IMO).

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Why yes, my poise-o-meter is flying off the charts.

Anyways, you said it yourself: Brady moves in the pocket better. That is just a result of not being rattled as easily as Manning. Not rattled as easily = more poise.

And, I'm sure that you'll come with some sorta stat that PROVES Manning is more poised. I just don't care for stats that much -- they're misleading (a poor way to prove an argument, IMO).

Well, what the stats show is whether or not Brady is more poised, he doesn't get it done quite as well as Manning does.

Stats only mislead people who don't understand how to use them correctly.

But yeah, I think Brady has great pocket presence. He's just a tough guy to get to for the sack. Manning also has great pocket presence, but he likes to throw the ball quicker rather than move all over.

I have no idea who has more poise. It's an intangible. Either way, if Brady WAS in fact more poised, it doesn't help him complete more passes than Manning, so it's moot.

All we can see is the total package. You can't break these guys down into categories and compare one vs. the other, these skills overlap and compensate for one another. Stats can't show who has more poise or better leadership. They can only show who is giving the best results.