The legacy of 'W'?

[MTK]

Reading this article got me wondering, when it's all said and done what do you think W's legacy will be? In 25 years when we look back, how do you think he will be perceived?

I mean c'mon, let's face it the guy came into office riding a mountain of controversy over the 2000 election, and he's enjoyin "rock-bottom poll numbers" as this article puts it.

I think the question is worth asking, is he the worst President we've seen to date?

Unpopular Bush risks little by staying course

[jsarno]

Wow, nothing like creating a useless thread. We haven't got enough of this in the other Bush bashing threads?

[MTK]

Thanks for chiming in with a worthless response, I wanted to focus specifically on his legacy here. If that's useless to you oh well, don't bother reading.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Thanks for chiming in with a worthless response, I wanted to focus specifically on his legacy here. If that's useless to you oh well, don't bother reading.

Just as worthless as this thread...do you really think you're going to get any other answers than you've already seen on other threads?
Hey, why don't we start a how Jason Campbell is going to fair this year thread?
If you want to start a bush bashing thread, why not title it so? At least then there is no underlying agenda.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Just as worthless as this thread...do you really think you're going to get any other answers than you've already seen on other threads?
Hey, why don't we start a how Jason Campbell is going to fair this year thread?
If you want to start a bush bashing thread, why not title it so? At least then there is no underlying agenda.

I'm not looking to bash him, that's far too easy anyway.

I'm honestly looking for some debate here as to what his legacy will be, and what has he actually done a good job with? I'm sure there's gotta be something.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm not looking to bash him, that's far too easy anyway.

I'm going to take your word for that.

I'm honestly looking for some debate here as to what his legacy will be, and what has he actually done a good job with? I'm sure there's gotta be something.[/QUOTE]

How about these:
1- he has helped to lower interest rates to the best in history.
2- He has helped the economy to one of the most successful in history.
3- He has had VERY good unemployment rates all the while lowering taxes for everyone including the poor.
4- He has hit his objectives and stuck to his word, something we commonly criticize presidents for. (read my lips, no new taxes comes to mind)
5- His unwaivering support for the protection of this country.
(Apparently he is a genius too cause he started this war all by himself, and he has fought this war all by himself. But that is sarcasm, not an actual good job)
6- He prevented Nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
7- Getting Lybia to give up its WMD programs and renounce terrorism.
8- Getting North Korea to shut down it's nuclear reactor.
9- Decapitating Al Quaeda's top leadership and preventing another massive attack on US soil.
10- Boosting Aid to Africa by three times the current aid...and vowed to double it again by 2010.

I'll start with those.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I'm going to take your word for that.

I'm honestly looking for some debate here as to what his legacy will be, and what has he actually done a good job with? I'm sure there's gotta be something.

How about these:
1- he has helped to lower interest rates to the best in history.
2- He has helped the economy to one of the most successful in history.
3- He has had VERY good unemployment rates all the while lowering taxes for everyone including the poor.
4- He has hit his objectives and stuck to his word, something we commonly criticize presidents for. (read my lips, no new taxes comes to mind)
5- His unwaivering support for the protection of this country.
(Apparently he is a genius too cause he started this war all by himself, and he has fought this war all by himself. But that is sarcasm, not an actual good job)
6- He prevented Nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
7- Getting Lybia to give up its WMD programs and renounce terrorism.
8- Getting North Korea to shut down it's nuclear reactor.
9- Decapitating Al Quaeda's top leadership and preventing another massive attack on US soil.
10- Boosting Aid to Africa by three times the current aid...and vowed to double it again by 2010.

I'll start with those.[/quote]

On the flipside what do you think he's done poorly?

[FRPLG]

I am not a Bush basher but I am going to respond to some of these:

Originally Posted by jsarno

How about these:
1- he has helped to lower interest rates to the best in history.

Yeah so he has exactly zero control over this. Giving him credit is silly. He has absolutely no impact on interest rates. Totally market and Federla Reserve driven.

2- He has helped the economy to one of the most successful in history.

Presidents get too much credit for this both ways, good and bad. The first Pres Bush got too much heat for the bad economy and Cliton and Bush both get too much credit for the good. Presidents have very little effect. Bush maybe more than others because of the tax cuts but that is debateable.

3- He has had VERY good unemployment rates all the while lowering taxes for everyone including the poor.

Well yes unemployemt is lower. See above. Same thing. As for lowering taxes, that is a weird one. Yes he lowered taxes and yes he lowered taxes mostly for rich people. That is because rich people pay most of the taxes in this country. He didn't really lower much in taxes for poor people because they don't pay much to begin with.

6- He prevented Nuclear war between India and Pakistan.

All by himself?

9- Decapitating Al Quaeda's top leadership and preventing another massive attack on US soil.

Al Queda is as strong as ever. There's not much he could have done either way. To destroy terrorists group like that will take decades at least.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I'm going to take your word for that.

I'm honestly looking for some debate here as to what his legacy will be, and what has he actually done a good job with? I'm sure there's gotta be something.

How about these:
1- he has helped to lower interest rates to the best in history.
2- He has helped the economy to one of the most successful in history.
3- He has had VERY good unemployment rates all the while lowering taxes for everyone including the poor.
4- He has hit his objectives and stuck to his word, something we commonly criticize presidents for. (read my lips, no new taxes comes to mind)
5- His unwaivering support for the protection of this country.
(Apparently he is a genius too cause he started this war all by himself, and he has fought this war all by himself. But that is sarcasm, not an actual good job)
6- He prevented Nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
7- Getting Lybia to give up its WMD programs and renounce terrorism.
8- Getting North Korea to shut down it's nuclear reactor.
9- Decapitating Al Quaeda's top leadership and preventing another massive attack on US soil.
10- Boosting Aid to Africa by three times the current aid...and vowed to double it again by 2010.

I'll start with those.[/quote]

What dimension are you living in?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Reading this article got me wondering, when it's all said and done what do you think W's legacy will be? In 25 years when we look back, how do you think he will be perceived?

I mean c'mon, let's face it the guy came into office riding a mountain of controversy over the 2000 election, and he's enjoyin "rock-bottom poll numbers" as this article puts it.

I think the question is worth asking, is he the worst President we've seen to date?

Unpopular Bush risks little by staying course

To answer your question...I think the Dems are already too high on the idea that he's the worst president ever, it won't be until a good decade from now that we can truely assess his worth.
I personally think that 10 years from now a lot of people will be saying he was a good president but they let rumors and other people influence their decision.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by jsarno

To answer your question...I think the Dems are already too high on the idea that he's the worst president ever, it won't be until a good decade from now that we can truely assess his worth.
I personally think that 10 years from now a lot of people will be saying he was a good president but they let rumors and other people influence their decision.

How convenient for you to blame the Dems for Bush's legacy. Why is it that everything is always partisan? What about Bush's own colleagues breaking ranks and not supporting him on some very key issues? What about his own party suggesting that he's too insulated from reality and not willing to work with Congress?

I think the disadvantage that Bush has over, let's say Truman, is that Truman was not under the 24 hour scrutinty of the media, internet, and blogosphere to judge, critisize, and analyze his every move and non-move. And for that reason, I think it's an unfair comparison when I hear people guage Bush's ratings against that of Truman's.

I think Bush will need to push and get some meaningful policy approved before his term ends; Immigration comes to mind. But he may have exhausted all of his political currency in Washington.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think Bush will need to push and get some meaningful policy approved before his term ends; Immigration comes to mind. But he may have exhausted all of his political currency in Washington.

Just an FYI, he has tried twice for immigration reform and was shot down. The president can only do so much cause that's how our system was made.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Just an FYI, he has tried twice for immigration reform and was shot down. The president can only do so much cause that's how our system was made.

Exactly. I think it was shot down, in part, because many didn't like the package, and secondly because Bush himself hasn't shown a capacity to compromise and reach accross the aisle on key issues. I think it just came back to bite him the ass, politically.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Exactly. I think it was shot down, in part, because many didn't like the package, and secondly because Bush himself hasn't shown a capacity to compromise and reach accross the isle on key issues. I think it just came back to bite him the ass, politically.

While I do agree...it think it has a lot to do with the fact that it has become PC to dislike Bush. Someone has to be "to blame" for this war in Iraq, and even though it was agreed with overwhelming support, those old fogies don't want to point their finger at themselves, so Bush is the one everyone is pointing to. It happens even here. Fact is, he said it would be a long hard fight, and he would see it through...well he actually was honest about it and we don't like that for some reason.

[jsarno]

Just an FYI for everyone...no president ever did everything 100% correctly. For those that loved Clinton, there were those that thought he was the worst president ever. To me, Clinton ended his presidency on a very high note, and now almost 8 years later, his tenure has been tarnished with comments of what he didn't do as a president and what he ignored that created other issues and problems.
Same goes for all presidents in the modern era of media. I think the only president in that history to be considered nearly perfect was Kennedy and only because people feel bad for picking on a president that was assissinated.