D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.

Yeah, that appears to be the multi-million dollar question. One I'm scared to answer.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.

I think Zorn has done a poor job of delegating his responsibilities, but this is an easy adjustment made in the offseason.

I think, first and foremost, that we are ignoring obvious good things about the offense when we point out that it isn't scoring points. We were on the freaking one inch line with downs to go and couldn't get it in, which can't be put on the coaching. Our kicker is really struggling, which can't be put on the coaching, or the offense at all.

And then I think that the offensive personnel is not nearly as good as it was last year. Well, it's close, but all the changes were downgrades.

That, and we were missing two offensive lineman this game.

None of that can be put on Zorn. His adjustments haven't helped us score points, but he is doing a much better job than Blache is, with less to work with. For all the crap we give Cerrato for his DL acquisitions, his inability to add anything of consequence to the offense has put Zorn in a position where, for the year, his unit has greatly overachieved.

And while the holes were there last year, they're nothing like the holes we've opened for him this year. Portis' success is a lot individual, but a lot due to the scheme change upfront, which improved the blocking at 4/5 positions, while making them easier to read for Portis because it's very close to what he had in Denver. We're a top five line blocking for the run, or at least we were with Samuels.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think Zorn has done a poor job of delegating his responsibilities, but this is an easy adjustment made in the offseason.

I think, first and foremost, that we are ignoring obvious good things about the offense when we point out that it isn't scoring points. We were on the freaking one inch line with downs to go and couldn't get it in, which can't be put on the coaching. Our kicker is really struggling, which can't be put on the coaching, or the offense at all.

And then I think that the offensive personnel is not nearly as good as it was last year. Well, it's close, but all the changes were downgrades.

That, and we were missing two offensive lineman this game.

None of that can be put on Zorn. His adjustments haven't helped us score points, but he is doing a much better job than Blache is, with less to work with. For all the crap we give Cerrato for his DL acquisitions, his inability to add anything of consequence to the offense has put Zorn in a position where, for the year, his unit has greatly overachieved.

And while the holes were there last year, they're nothing like the holes we've opened for him this year. Portis' success is a lot individual, but a lot due to the scheme change upfront, which improved the blocking at 4/5 positions, while making them easier to read for Portis because it's very close to what he had in Denver. We're a top five line blocking for the run, or at least we were with Samuels.

So let's see here. We have a top ten defense, the defesne has kept us in every single game this year, even w/out having a pass rusher and the offense is pretty much last in scoring and you say Zorn is doing his job better than Blache???????? Sorry Tripp but you're flat out wrong here.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

I think people critical of Campbell are looking at the stats a bit more than you think. Their point is valid. Consider:

Over the first 8 games when we went 6-2, Campbell's stats were impressive. 219 yards per game, 66% completion, 7.6 yards per attempt, and most impressively 8 TDs and 0 INTs. His QB rating hovered around 100.

Over the last 5 games (not including today's Bengals game in which he was mediocre), he has dropped to 205 yards per game, 59.4% completion, 5.5 yards per attempt, 3 TDs and 6 INTs.

Those numbers look familiar. Campbell in 2007:

207 yards per game, 60% completion, 6.5 yards per attempt, 12 TDs and 11 INTs.

He has indeed faced extremely tough defenses during this time. Today's Bengals performance was better, so I can't say he's regressed. But he's certainly not making "the leap" either. I haven't seen him make any game-changing plays for us in a while now.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

I'm not so sure he's a whole lot better. His has a a higher completion % cause all he does is throw passes 10 yards and under. I think he'd be just as good if not better if he stayed in Al's offense. I've yet to see Zorn let JC do something he was real good at under Al. Run the no huddle. Poor coaching.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

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I'm not so sure he's a whole lot better. His has a a higher completion % cause all he does is throw passes 10 yards and under. I think he'd be just as good if not better if he stayed in Al's offense. I've yet to see Zorn let JC do something he was real good at under Al. Run the no huddle. Poor coaching.

I think Campbell will likely suggest the no huddle in the offseason, and Zorn will let him do it.

Campbell's INT rate is second in the NFL to Jeff Garcia, his pocket presence has significantly improved (arguably out of necessity), and he will never have to face a schedule of pass defenses as hard as he had to this season the rest of his career.

The drop in interception rate has not come at the expense of any of the rest of his production. He was a 1 to 1 type guy in TD/INT ratio through 2007, he's now a 2 to 1 type guy. The completion percentage increase shows that his decreased INT rate is real, not a fluke, suggests that perhaps the fact that his TD rate isn't any high might be a fluke, and he's actually improved his Y/A, albiet slightly.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think Campbell will likely suggest the no huddle in the offseason, and Zorn will let him do it.

Campbell's INT rate is second in the NFL to Jeff Garcia, his pocket presence has significantly improved (arguably out of necessity), and he will never have to face a schedule of pass defenses as hard as he had to this season the rest of his career.

The drop in interception rate has not come at the expense of any of the rest of his production. He was a 1 to 1 type guy in TD/INT ratio through 2007, he's now a 2 to 1 type guy. The completion percentage increase shows that his decreased INT rate is real, not a fluke, suggests that perhaps the fact that his TD rate isn't any high might be a fluke, and he's actually improved his Y/A, albiet slightly.

You're comparing the 2008 Campbell as if he's still the same guy he was in the first 8 games. See my previous post, it's been a tale of two seasons. He has 6 INTs in the last 6 games.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post512011

[TheSmurfs22]

I love this team and love them no matter what, however is Cowher is the answer and would Cowher even want to come to Washington?

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by TheSmurfs22

I love this team and love them no matter what, however is Cowher is the answer and would Cowher even want to come to Washington?

What I'd like if Cowher took over:

He'd build up the lines...a perfect match for us
We'd play with FIRE...another perfect match

What I wouldn't like
Playcalling would be run heavy....a good match if we upgraded Oline
He'd neglect the passing game....would neglect Moss
We'd probably move to a 3-4...bad, we're short of quality DT, NT and LB

Overall question mark would be....who's GM.
If you fix that, everything gets better in 2-3 years regardless of coach.

Question:
How would you rate FO this year?
Most gave great review of draft early on (except TE)

I say, out of 10 picks, they have all essentially sucked, except Horton.
(even a squirrel finds a nut occasionally)
To hang a hat on that is not saying much.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

What I'd like if Cowher took over:

Overall question mark would be....who's GM.
If you fix that, everything gets better in 2-3 years regardless of coach.

Cowher serves as the team GM. In short he would hypothetically wield the same power Marty had during his season in Washington.

[tryfuhl]

I think that Zorn tried to load up his plate at the buffet a bit too much.. HC.. basically the QB Coach.. calling the plays, etc.. things he hasn't had to deal with before

Granted if you're taking a positional coach and making them a head coach, maybe that's something to be expected since they have something to prove

I wonder how Sherman Smith feels and what he would be doing

[ElkridgeSkins]

If Zorn gets canned, it wouldn't surprise me. It would dissapoint me, I think the real problem is Cerrato (with Snyder talking in his ear). He just doesn't seem to be able to address a need the last few years. I love some of the picks, like Landry and Horton, but the lines haven't been addressed in the top of the draft in recent years. He hasn't drafted wisely in my opinion. The O & D lines just can't man up with the better lines in the league.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by ElkridgeSkins

If Zorn gets canned, it wouldn't surprise me. It would dissapoint me, I think the real problem is Cerrato (with Snyder talking in his ear). He just doesn't seem to be able to address a need the last few years. I love some of the picks, like Landry and Horton, but the lines haven't been addressed in the top of the draft in recent years. He hasn't drafted wisely in my opinion. The O & D lines just can't man up with the better lines in the league.

The way ESPN was talking last night the Zorn to Cowher era is going to be a reality. Although Zorn would be getting a raw deal, if he has indeed lost the team, it might as well go down that way. If he lost the team already, I doubt the offseason is really going to heal that situation. Also, I don't see how he could come back in '09 without totally revamping his offensive scheme anyway. It seemed even before the bye, teams were figuring out how to stymie it(scoring wise), so Zorn would have to almost bring in a whole new system anyway.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

The way ESPN was talking last night the Zorn to Cowher era is going to be a reality. Although Zorn would be getting a raw deal, if he has indeed lost the team, it might as well go down that way. If he lost the team already, I doubt the offseason is really going to heal that situation. Also, I don't see how he could come back in '09 without totally revamping his offensive scheme anyway. It seemed even before the bye, teams were figuring out how to stymie it(scoring wise), so Zorn would have to almost bring in a whole new system anyway.

Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..

I think Snyder would like to keep him around. I know people think he gets a kick out of the Redskins being front page news in the off-season but in reality he'd rather just that the team win. But anyway, it's not too big a secret that there have been lots of problems in the locker room over the past month and I hear that it's getting worse. I think that everyone needs to realize that frustrations are mounting because of the losses, and the fact that the Redskins look completely non-competitive. And I would really like to see Zorn given a chance to play the guys he wants and be surrounded by the coaches he wants and fight through this. However, what Snyder doesn't want is a rehash of Spurrier where things got worse in year two and then Spurrier bolted. I don't think it's quite the same though, because I haven't heard anyone say Zorn doesn't really care (the way Spurrier didn't really seem to care).

Of course, I'm not really around the team these days but I was there for the last couple of years of Turner, the Schottenheimer days, and the Spurrier era. Turner-nice enough guy but extremely stubborn and insistent that his ways would work if only the players weren't so incompetent; Schottenheimer-earned the team's respect by respecting them and having a track record; Spurrier-would have rather been anywhere else, didn't put any effort at all into the job. I hear Zorn has Norv-like tendencies.

I think it would be a mistake to switch coaches after this season, even if Zorn resigned I would reject the resignation. The hiring itself was a head scratcher but they made their beds and should lie in them, in my opinion. I understand the fear of a complete mutiny and total failure next season. But, in my opinion, the team is not going to get significantly better until it lets go of this fear of abject failure. If it fails, it fails but I think that's better than constant change.

Anyhow, long story short. Zorn-lacking authority in the locker room, not improving, needs to show some mettle over the next couple of weeks.