Campbell's numbers dont lie

[SBXVII]

DMV, I have agreed with you on many of topics in the past, but honestly I think I found one I can say I agree with you on.

People say he doesn't have a quick release.
It's not just us fans friend it's Zorn also. He has stated JC needs to get the ball out faster. One would think the designer of the master scheme would know best.

You can't have a quick release when no one is open.
I actually believe this is Hixon's fault. He's a failure at WR coach.

JC can't read defenses.
I'll believe this until I'm dead. Maybe it's because he's under center and can't survey the field as well but he seems to change into the wrong play way to many times. In shot gun he's not as bad.

He lead his team to a national championship in college.
I credit him for this. I have supported him all the way up until last week. I am now thinking he never would have been drafted had we not picked him up. If JC and Daniels both came out of the same draft we would have cut JC, I have no doubt. Right now we have too much invested in him to simply cut him.

-Thomas drops a TD pass
-Sellers drops a TD pass
-Zorn calls a HB option play
-We try to run the ball in at the goal line on 2 separate occasions
-Moss fumbles in the redzone
I don't think any one would disagree with you on the fact that other players are not doing their part, but that's only half the truth.
-JC over throwing Kelly
-JC throwing a dirt ball to Cooley
-JC over throwing ARE
-JC throwing the ball behind his receivers all the time while in route
-JC waiting for his receivers to get out of their breaks and come to a complete stop before getting the pass off
-etc. etc.

Personally I like JC. I think he has a strong arm and can get the ball down field. I'm not sure of his accuracy but he can get the ball down field.

Have any of you known someone who could take a test and ace it? be the #1 person for the job, but when you put them in a real live situation they can't perform? this is how I see JC. I know the whole "stat" issue will be brought up cause everyone likes stat's. Apparently that's the measuring stick around here. but there's more to playing football then stats. Most of Gibbs1 QB's would never have stayed in the NFL. Most of his QB's were mediocre and had lower percentages then most of the other top ten teams in the league. Guess who Gibbs1 won SB's with. Guess who out classed, out performed other QB's. Maybe I'm making a case for you but I'm also trying to point out that he could have the best stats and still suck as a QB. No different then being the best QB in the league and having crappy stats.

Right now my issue is the team needs a spark. Maybe simply benching a player or two will wake up this team. I know Collins is not the answer. If he was he would be #1 QB right now. but....he does have a quick release, he does know how to get the ball out while the WR is coming out of his break, and if we are going to throw interceptions why not do it with a QB who's doing what he supposed to do with the ball then we can look at the WR's and wonder why they were not in position. Instead of wondering if it's JC's fault, the WR's fault, the O-lines fault, or the HC's fault.

I think we have too many problems as of right now. Motivation is low. Players may be trying too hard. I don't know but when I see Atlanta and Baltimore and Miami bring in new HC's and they do well and all three go into the play offs and we did not I got miffed. This year it was the New Jersey and Detroit, now I'm not saying either will make the play offs but so far the Jets have been putting up more then 20 points in their games and the Lions just kicked our asses on both sides of the ball. I know the points don't show it. This is not Zorn's first yr and we are not supposed to be trying to find an identity at this point. We are supposed to already have it. Yet the other 4 teams look better then us. So yes I'm miffed at everyone not just JC.

I went to sleep last night as happy as a clam thinking how nice it would be to have DS eat some crow and bring in Marty Schottenheimer as GM and Brian Schottenheimer as HC turning our two stud WR's into 1,000 yrd each WR's. Making Mason or Alridge or whoever a 1,000 yrd RB like he has in Jersey the last 2 yrs. I picture an offense that can score at will and a defense that creates 3 and outs constantly with sacks and interceptions. Guess what? I got to sleep fast and had a restfull night.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I know the whole "stat" issue will be brought up cause everyone likes stat's. Apparently that's the measuring stick around here. but there's more to playing football then stats. Most of Gibbs1 QB's would never have stayed in the NFL. Most of his QB's were mediocre and had lower percentages then most of the other top ten teams in the league. Guess who Gibbs1 won SB's with. Guess who out classed, out performed other QB's. Maybe I'm making a case for you but I'm also trying to point out that he could have the best stats and still suck as a QB. No different then being the best QB in the league and having crappy stats.

These things can never, ever happen.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

DMV, I have agreed with you on many of topics in the past, but honestly I think I found one I can say I disagree with you on.

People say he doesn't have a quick release.
It's not just us fans friend it's Zorn also. He has stated JC needs to get the ball out faster. One would think the designer of the master scheme would know best.

Zorn has also stated he's gotten much better and faster with his release.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

You can't have a quick release when no one is open.
I actually believe this is Hixon's fault. He's a failure at WR coach.

JC can't read defenses.
I'll believe this until I'm dead. Maybe it's because he's under center and can't survey the field as well but he seems to change into the wrong play way to many times. In shot gun he's not as bad.

Please define "can't read defenses". Typically someone who cannot read defenses throws a high number of interceptions (see Patrick Ramsey) because he's throwing into coverages. How do we know that he changes into the wrong play too many times? If anything, Zorn has praised him for checking into and out of plays when the defense calls for it. His major error was checking to the run on 3rd and 7 vs. NYG but that's one occurence, please cite some others.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

He lead his team to a national championship in college.
I credit him for this. I have supported him all the way up until last week. I am now thinking he never would have been drafted had we not picked him up. If JC and Daniels both came out of the same draft we would have cut JC, I have no doubt. Right now we have too much invested in him to simply cut him.

WHAT?? So a player that was projected to be a low 1st or high 2nd round pick now wouldn't have been drafted AT ALL??? Seriously? C'mon dude, bring a logical premise to the table. The lack of credibility around here with some posts is astounding. It really indicates that some people actually know NOTHING about football.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

-Thomas drops a TD pass
-Sellers drops a TD pass
-Zorn calls a HB option play
-We try to run the ball in at the goal line on 2 separate occasions
-Moss fumbles in the redzone
I don't think any one would disagree with you on the fact that other players are not doing their part, but that's only half the truth.
-JC over throwing Kelly
-JC throwing a dirt ball to Cooley
-JC over throwing ARE
-JC throwing the ball behind his receivers all the time while in route
-JC waiting for his receivers to get out of their breaks and come to a complete stop before getting the pass off
-etc. etc.

Show me a QB that hasn't over or under thrown multiple over the span of a few games. Campbell has his flaws, mechanics and accuracy are among them, but you have to take the balance.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Personally I like JC. I think he has a strong arm and can get the ball down field. I'm not sure of his accuracy but he can get the ball down field.

Have any of you known someone who could take a test and ace it? be the #1 person for the job, but when you put them in a real live situation they can't perform? this is how I see JC. I know the whole "stat" issue will be brought up cause everyone likes stat's. Apparently that's the measuring stick around here. but there's more to playing football then stats. Most of Gibbs1 QB's would never have stayed in the NFL. Most of his QB's were mediocre and had lower percentages then most of the other top ten teams in the league. Guess who Gibbs1 won SB's with. Guess who out classed, out performed other QB's. Maybe I'm making a case for you but I'm also trying to point out that he could have the best stats and still suck as a QB. No different then being the best QB in the league and having crappy stats.

Ok, who would you consider to be Campbell's peers in the league? He's not at the level of Manning, Brees, Brady, etc. nor is he at the depth of Russell, Quinn, Leftwich. So who would you compare him to on the same plane?

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Right now my issue is the team needs a spark. Maybe simply benching a player or two will wake up this team. I know Collins is not the answer. If he was he would be #1 QB right now. but....he does have a quick release, he does know how to get the ball out while the WR is coming out of his break, and if we are going to throw interceptions why not do it with a QB who's doing what he supposed to do with the ball then we can look at the WR's and wonder why they were not in position. Instead of wondering if it's JC's fault, the WR's fault, the O-lines fault, or the HC's fault.

I think we have too many problems as of right now. Motivation is low. Players may be trying too hard. I don't know but when I see Atlanta and Baltimore and Miami bring in new HC's and they do well and all three go into the play offs and we did not I got miffed. This year it was the New Jersey and Detroit, now I'm not saying either will make the play offs but so far the Jets have been putting up more then 20 points in their games and the Lions just kicked our asses on both sides of the ball. I know the points don't show it. This is not Zorn's first yr and we are not supposed to be trying to find an identity at this point. We are supposed to already have it. Yet the other 4 teams look better then us. So yes I'm miffed at everyone not just JC.

I went to sleep last night as happy as a clam thinking how nice it would be to have DS eat some crow and bring in Marty Schottenheimer as GM and Brian Schottenheimer as HC turning our two stud WR's into 1,000 yrd each WR's. Making Mason or Alridge or whoever a 1,000 yrd RB like he has in Jersey the last 2 yrs. I picture an offense that can score at will and a defense that creates 3 and outs constantly with sacks and interceptions. Guess what? I got to sleep fast and had a restfull night.

[Swarley]

I fully understand your point that stats arent everything but lets not go too far. There is no such thing as one of the best qb's with the worst stats. These things go hand in hand. During the Gibbs 1.0 years no one can argue that those teams werent more talented, better coached, and had a greater sense of motivation than the current team or any team JC has been on. It's much easier to play QB and be succesful when everyone around you is succesful.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GreekSkin

I fully understand your point that stats arent everything but lets not go too far. There is no such thing as one of the best qb's with the worst stats. These things go hand in hand. During the Gibbs 1.0 years no one can argue that those teams werent more talented, better coached, and had a greater sense of motivation than the current team or any team JC has been on. It's much easier to play QB and be succesful when everyone around you is succesful.

If I'm not mistaken Theisman usually had a 60% or 70% rating during the season. Compared to some of the others he always looked bad. But he got the job done, and yes they did have good coaching....which I think they are lacking.

[Ruhskins]

I think Matty should lock any thread that pop up about QBs. LOL.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Some of you guys and gals are morons. You must be watching these games with blinders or drunk. The Red Zone offense and the defense is the problem. Jason Campbell is doing his job. It's not his fault if he is not even getting opportunities to even make plays in the Red Zone. Most of the time Zorn is calling running plays or half back option passes. A few of the passes that Campbell have thrown have been dropped. How do you come to the conclusion that you should put in a 38 year old career backup. Zorn needs to take off the shackles and allow Campbell make plays, call audibles at the line, run hurry-up offense to change the pace. The offense is too simple and predictable.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Some of you guys and gals are morons. You must be watching these games with blinders or drunk. The Red Zone offense and the defense is the problem. Jason Campbell is doing his job. It's not his fault if he is not even getting opportunities to even make plays in the Red Zone. Most of the time Zorn is calling running plays or half back option passes. A few of the passes that Campbell have thrown have been dropped. How do you come to the conclusion that you should put in a 38 year old career backup. Zorn needs to take off the shackles and allow Campbell make plays, call audibles at the line, run hurry-up offense to change the pace. The offense is too simple and predictable.

I'm extremely pissed off with the state of the Redskins and went too far calling some of members morons. I apologize. I'm just tired of all the overreacting and asking for everyone to be fired, including Snyder. After a couple days of fuming, I've come to the realization, the Redskins are not that good. That's a hard pill to swallow but the evidence in on the field. I watch a replay of the game and Detroit beat the Skins in every phase of the game. This week will be a true test. Are the Redskins the worst team in football? As bad as the Redskins have played, the Bucs are worse. I think...

[over the mountain]

lol maybe thats the problem with this whole JC debate. it seems most of us (me included) think JC is a good qb, not great but good. somehow we are dividing ourselves by exagerating what other posters are saying.

could he become great? im not sure as i fall into the category of fans who think he doesnt read D schemes well pre-snap which i think is a necessary requirement to be a great qb like manning or brady. imo JC looks best when his first option is open. if zorn doesnt call the perfect play and JCs first option is covered, our best bet is to have JC check down to cooley. while i like JC i would like to have a qb that can know where to go with the ball if his 1st option is covered, a lil better anticipation of how the play is going to unfold.

lol half this board accuses the other side of saying JC oozes greatness, the other half accuses the other side of saying JC is the worst qb of all time. but in reality, most of us think JC is good and he is our best option this year.

go skins!!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

lol maybe thats the problem with this whole JC debate. it seems most of us (me included) think JC is a good qb, not great but good. somehow we are dividing ourselves by exagerating what other posters are saying.

could he become great? im not sure as i fall into the category of fans who think he doesnt read D schemes well pre-snap which i think is a necessary requirement to be a great qb like manning or brady. imo JC looks best when his first option is open. if zorn doesnt call the perfect play and JCs first option is covered, our best bet is to have JC check down to cooley. while i like JC i would like to have a qb that can know where to go with the ball if his 1st option is covered, a lil better anticipation of how the play is going to unfold.

lol half this board accuses the other side of saying JC oozes greatness, the other half accuses the other side of saying JC is the worst qb of all time. but in reality, most of us think JC is good and he is our best option this year.

go skins!!

Well that was my point. I think he's done great, under the circumstances, but overall, I'd agree that he hasn't met expectations. Mine or anyone elses apparently. That's not his fault, but it's a reality.

If he continues to toss for near 8.0 YPA this year, that's in line with the best years that Ben Roethlisberger or Tom Brady have ever had. But his career stats say he won't keep up on this current pace. The season is plenty young.

But I mean, a lot of people are completely oblivious to what he ACTUALLY IS doing. And that's the reason the debate is even happening. Because he is performing, and people are commenting that they don't even know how anyone could say Campbell is doing well.

Efficiency wise, he's in the best three game stretch of his career. Nothing states that it has to continue, or that he won't throw up a stinker against Tampa, or that his fumbles won't cost the team another victory or two down the road. Being a quarterback is about more than just passing. But it's plain as day that the guy is an NFL caliber passer, and some people are running out the same stupid arguments.

You are not one of those people, but that doesn't mean that people should not be accountable for what they write, even on the internet. Those who write stupid crap here, are probably stupid in real life. I believe that's the truth. Not to jump on you for moderating on anything, but even the anti-JC crowd should be able to see a good passing game when one exists. If they can't...then don't comment at all.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

lol maybe thats the problem with this whole JC debate. it seems most of us (me included) think JC is a good qb, not great but good. somehow we are dividing ourselves by exagerating what other posters are saying.

could he become great? im not sure as i fall into the category of fans who think he doesnt read D schemes well pre-snap which i think is a necessary requirement to be a great qb like manning or brady. imo JC looks best when his first option is open. if zorn doesnt call the perfect play and JCs first option is covered, our best bet is to have JC check down to cooley. while i like JC i would like to have a qb that can know where to go with the ball if his 1st option is covered, a lil better anticipation of how the play is going to unfold.

lol half this board accuses the other side of saying JC oozes greatness, the other half accuses the other side of saying JC is the worst qb of all time. but in reality, most of us think JC is good and he is our best option this year.

go skins!!

As a JC 'lover' I think his peak is a top 12-15 QB. I don't see him ever being a Manning, Brady, Brees. With a strong OL, good RB/WR and decent play calling that should be enough to keep us in every game.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

As a JC 'lover' I think his peak is a top 12-15 QB. I don't see him ever being a Manning, Brady, Brees. With a strong OL, good RB/WR and decent play calling that should be enough to keep us in every game.

I'd argue that he's already keeping us in every game.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'd argue that he's already keeping us in every game.

I'd say he's not losing games for us. Not winning them either though.

And regardless of the final scores of the Lions and Giants games, I wouldn't say we were really "in" those games. We were down 13-0 and 19-7 against the Lions and down 13 points with a couple of minutes to go against the Giants. But whatever. I'm probably splitting hairs at this point.

[GTripp0012]

My rant above is not to be taken as, "if you don't like Jason Campbell, you must be a two bit moron." No, I actually think the jury is still out on him, and will be until the offense as a whole comes together around him.

But just take the facts for what they are. My god. Don't find 100 million reasons to dispute what can be just taken for granted.

[SBXVII]

Pain,

Zorn has also stated he's gotten much better and faster with his release
I thought Zorn commented on this after the Rams game also. Yes the release is faster but I don't think it's where Zorn would like it. but I still think the WR issue's go hand in hand with JC's issues. Maybe bringing in a qualified WR coach would make JC look outstanding.

Please define "can't read defenses". Typically someone who cannot read defenses throws a high number of interceptions (see Patrick Ramsey) because he's throwing into coverages. How do we know that he changes into the wrong play too many times? If anything, Zorn has praised him for checking into and out of plays when the defense calls for it. His major error was checking to the run on 3rd and 7 vs. NYG but that's one occurence, please cite some others.
Maybe I am an idiot. I don't know if he's changing into the wrong play too many time. You are correct. I'll retract my statement, but it's my feelings when after you see a change at the line and the play fails then the camera pans to Zorn fuming on the sideline....just my observation. As to reading defenses, again just my feelings/observations since he's been with the organization. He fails to pick up the rush or where it's coming from. Fails to change into a more productive play call perhaps a quick slant (like those other top QB's you named) or move to the shot gun to buy more time.

WHAT?? So a player that was projected to be a low 1st or high 2nd round pick now wouldn't have been drafted AT ALL???
I didn't know he was projected so high. Hmm. I might have to change my way of thinking.

Show me a QB that hasn't over or under thrown multiple over the span of a few games. Campbell has his flaws, mechanics and accuracy are among them, but you have to take the balance.
I agree with you here. Other have over thrown their receivers. I just wonder why after 5 yrs with Moss, 4 with ARE, 1 with Thomas and Kelly he can't be more on the money with his passes. Even Cooley, who is his favorite receiver has to grab the ball from behind or make finger tip grabbs all the time. Why can't the ball be placed so the receivers can continue with their flow of running their routes? It seems most of his passes that are connecting are passes where the receiver sat down into a zone and waited for the ball.

Ok, who would you consider to be Campbell's peers in the league? He's not at the level of Manning, Brees, Brady, etc. nor is he at the depth of Russell, Quinn, Leftwich. So who would you compare him to on the same plane?
This is obviously where one must use stats. Go look for your self but I'm guessing Cutler would be one. I don't see Cutler as being anything special either. Since you brought up the other names though ...they were first round drafts...no different then JC. Yet you are saying he's not in their league.