Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

This whole thing with tyranny is a little much. If the name changes it's not going to lead to the downfall of civilization.

Some of us do not want Government to control our every decision.

That was NEVER the intent of this Government or nation, but now it's sadly becoming expected and even worse, accepted.

I'd think a New Yorker like you would be a little tired of Government overstepping its bounds and pillaging your livelihood with oppressive taxation.



This whole issue has come up again because Snyder is looking at real estate in D.C for a stadium site and the PC-moonbats in the D.C. legislature see an opportunity to push Snyder around with a name change being a stipulation for land deal. Corruption, plain and simple. This is mob-like behavior.

Hopefully Snyder just takes his billion-dollar brand and builds somewhere else. If the District doesn't want that revenue on OUR terms, forget them...Virginia would love to have that money and would be proud to be home of the Redskins.

[Monkeydad]

KI, read this history of the name. The team's name is not based on race or even meant to describe Native Americans.

The origin of the name ‘Redskins’

And Jim Thorpe coached and starred in a team composed entirely of Native Americans called the Oorang (Ohio) Indians in 1922 and 1923. So it seems unlikely that anyone batted an eye at the name “Redskins” being chosen by Marshall.2 And as the Globe’s article points out, the home stadium for the team was known as the Wigwam (and for a brief period when the baseball Braves were known as the Bees, the “Beehive.”) But that didn’t last long, either, because fifteen days after the name change, the Redskins announced that they were moving to Fenway Park. Here is what the Boston Globe printed on July 21, 1933:

REDSKINS’ FOOTBALL TEAM TO SHIFT TO FENWAY PARK

Fenway Park will be the scene of the home games this Fall of the Boston Redskins, formerly known as the Braves, the local club of the National League of Professional Football, George Marshall, president of the Redskins, announced last night.

In his communication Mr. Marshall emphasized that the change was made solely because of the more intimate advantages of playing in the Red Sox park, where the gridiron may be plotted closer to the grandstand and pavilion seats, and the 5000 temporary field seats are almost flush with the sidelines.

Disassociating the team with the Braves didn’t seem like a good reason to remove the Native American association. Perhaps ‘Redskins’ was chosen instead of ‘Indians’ to make fans think of their new co-tenants, the Red Sox, or perhaps Coach Dietz had some influence on Marshall. I’ll note that in 1980, another account of the situation by the Boston Globe indicates that while the events may have been publicly been announced in that order, the cause and effect may have been reversed:

When the “baseball Braves” hiked the rent for 1933, George Preston Marshall moved his club to Fenway Park and was faced with a dilemma. He didn’t want to give his former landlord the satisfaction of retaining their nickname, but his team’s uniforms were imprinted with Indian insignia.

Marshall solved the problem with a practicality and shrewdness that would become his trademark. He dubbed his team the “Redskins,” a name he kept when he moved his roadshow from Boston to Washington four years later.

So the team was named really to relate to the fans they were playing for, not to take on some Indian-like identity. They had an Indian head logo , but the name Redskins was not meant to describe it at all.

By now, the Fenway and Boston connection is long gone, but the Redskins name is still full of tradition and actually tells the story of how the franchise was born...not a racially-slanderous monicker.

As usual with these kinds of debates, those who don't know the history have no right to be flapping their lips. (not you, the politicians and ignorant whiners about "racism")

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

KI, read this history of the name. The team's name is not based on race or even meant to describe Native Americans.

The origin of the name ‘Redskins’

So the team was named really to relate to the fans they were playing for, not to take on some Indian-like identity. They had an Indian head logo , but the name Redskins was not meant to describe it at all.

By now, the Fenway and Boston connection is long gone, but the Redskins name is still full of tradition and actually tells the story of how the franchise was born...not a racially-slanderous monicker.

As usual with these kinds of debates, those who don't know the history have no right to be flapping their lips. (not you, the politicians and ignorant whiners about "racism")

Team history has nothing to do with what the name represents to many people right now, in our current society. Whether or not you think that anyone who is offended by the name needs a history lesson before they should speak out, they're going to continue to speak out anyway.

What do want Dan Snyder to do about that? Should he run for office on a platform to end political correctness or should he just resolve the issue as it relates to his NFL franchise? He could do the latter by simply changing the name of his team.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Team history has nothing to do with what the name represents to many people right now, in our current society. Whether or not you think that anyone who is offended by the name needs a history lesson before they should speak out, they're going to continue to speak out anyway.

What do want Dan Snyder to do about that? Should he run for office on a platform to end political correctness or should he just resolve the issue as it relates to his NFL franchise? He could do the latter by simply changing the name of his team.

So history is to be re-written for the modern shifts and ideas of society? This is the same way of thinking that is trying to force the Catholic Church to abandon its values and provide contraception at their universities and perform gay marriages in their churches.

Sometimes, standing your ground is more important than going with what's popular, because tomorrow it will be different.

Look at the state of our society...the celebrity worship over learning history and following the news...the addiction to cellphones instead of playing with our children...letting the schools and Government be the parents of our kids...all of the people who'd rather sit at home and collect welfare than work and be proud of their contributions to society...we're supposed to listen to these people and just throw away 80 years of tradition because of how they feel today?

No. We should stand our ground and they'll get over it and move on to an easier target for their "activism", because in reality, they're not REALLY offended by our name, they're just trying to make a name for themselves for personal, political reasons.

It's been well documented, actual Native Americans aren't offended...just a bunch of white liberal lawyers who want attention say they are.

Hell yeah I'm passionate about defending my team. And...I have some Cherokee in me so I guess I am qualified to speak.

[That Guy]

there are a couple teams (I think) called the fighting whities. why don't we all go jump their sh@#?

oh yeah, that's right, because no one cares.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by That Guy

there are a couple teams (I think) called the fighting whities. why don't we all go jump their sh@#?

oh yeah, that's right, because no one cares.

The Fighting Whites (Later named the Fighting Whities based on the media mistaking the Whites for Whities) was meant as a joke to protest Indian mascots being used by College and Professional teams. It was started by a group of people that were primarily White, Indian, and Latino.

The stunt both backfired... and was genius...

It backfired for the cause because it became hugely popular. It was taken as funny, not racist.

It was genius because it became so popular that they commercialized it, sold T-shirts, and became millionaires.

[Chico23231]

Im not joking when I say Bruce and Dan need to approach the DC government and let them know how much they would hate to change the Franchise name from Washington to Virginia if there is a change from Redskins. Let them know they would go ahead not associate with anything within the DC city bounderies. They have significant leverage and believe me, our state would be more than willing to accomadate that change. Fortunately our state unlike DC and Maryland has been managed very well through these bad economic times. We could easily put together a nice package to lure them to Northern Va.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Im not joking when I say Bruce and Dan need to approach the DC government and let them know how much they would hate to change the Franchise name from Washington to Virginia if there is a change from Redskins. Let them know they would go ahead not associate with anything within the DC city bounderies. They have significant leverage and believe me, our state would be more than willing to accomadate that change. Fortunately our state unlike DC and Maryland has been managed very well through these bad economic times. We could easily put together a nice package to lure them to Northern Va.

Yes, if the DC idiocrats pursue this any further, remove the name Washington. Of course, as I just mentioned, that will be costly but hey, the if the Los Angeles Angels/California Angels/Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles can afford to keep changing their city name without actually relocating, I'm sure Dan Snyder can afford it and he has a legitimate reason for doing it, standing up for his team.

[Paintrain]

In a way this has already been adjudicated and settled by the trademark case brought forth in '92 that ended up getting defeated and not heard by the Supreme Court so the whole issue really is a nonstarter.

A legitimate question isn't should the Redskins be FORCED to change it (which I personally don't think they should) but rather should they change it because it's the right thing to do (which I don't feel strongly about either way).

Historically the 'majority' rests on the argument of it's not a big deal or it's not hurting anyone when it comes to civil issues. That attitude is a part of the issue when discussing it. There wouldn't be tolerance for a commonly used modern era racial slur or derogatory slur as a team name, so why is it accepted now? Just because it always has been that way? That's not a legitimate reason. Just because 'you' don't think it should be offensive? Again, not a legitimate reason.

Whether it is or isn't is not my call because I'm not a Native American, nor is the councilman pushing for the change or Mike Wise who is outspoken against it nor are the editors or writers of the newspapers that refuse to print the name. The only organized body who tried to do something was the aforementioned '92 case that didn't work.

But I do feel this way, if Native Americans, represented by a body (group, organization, etc), state that the name is offensive and a slur, then it should be VOLUNTARILY changed by the team. If the team isn't willing to do so, then bad on them but so be it.

Anyone who thinks changing the name (rebranding) will damage the team or the merchandising is fooling themselves. Fans/consumers like nothing better than fresh, hot, new. Especially if there's a cause behind it and a marketable face (RGIII) with it, Snyder would be swimming in the dough.

The only way I see it happening though is if the FCC deems it a slur and networks can be fined for using the term inappropriately but that's as likely as Vinny getting another job in the NFL.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

But I do feel this way, if Native Americans, represented by a body (group, organization, etc), state that the name is offensive and a slur, then it should be VOLUNTARILY changed by the team. If the team isn't willing to do so, then bad on them but so be it.

The people whining are constantly comparing the name to a much harsher, REAL racial epitaph...nigger. It's a word I'd never use but we also can't be afraid to acknowledge it's horrible existence in discussions like this. Has anyone EVER heard someone who hates Native Americans yell "you Redskin!" at a Native American? No. It's not used that way. It's not a racist term unless someone distorts it to be. I believe these people always crying racism and viewing everything in racial terms are the REAL racists. People like me who view and treat everyone equally...we don't think like that, "is this word racist...is that word racist..." When I see RGIII play, and when I watched Doug Williams play, I don't believe I ever thought, "wow, he's a great black QB". They were just great QBs, period. It takes a disturbed mind to walk through life seeing everything and everyone in terms of skin color.

Anyone who thinks changing the name (rebranding) will damage the team or the merchandising is fooling themselves. Fans/consumers like nothing better than fresh, hot, new. Especially if there's a cause behind it and a marketable face (RGIII) with it, Snyder would be swimming in the dough.

I'd agree, if actual Native Americans were protesting in the streets...sure, change it. We'd owe them the respect. However, that's not what's happening, it's the PC crowd trying to get more control over our lives. After they get their way, they'll move on to the next target without blinking an eye.

The new name could be a flop. The idiots trying to get our name changed have been suggesting names like Pigskins, Redskin Potatoes and Redtails. Ive heard Senators and Federals which are downright offensive to me because honoring the Government that forced us to throw our team's tradition away is insulting us and giving them undue credit.

Warriors isn't too bad and we could use the spear helmet I guess...but they'll still be the Redskins to me. Hogs...at least that would have some actual meaning for the fans but still an inferior name to Redskins.

We could always go Washington Americans and rightfully steal the America's Team identity from an impotent Dallas team.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

I'd agree, if actual Native Americans were protesting in the streets...sure, change it. We'd owe them the respect. However, that's not what's happening, it's the PC crowd trying to get more control over our lives. After they get their way, they'll move on to the next target without blinking an eye.

The new name could be a flop. The idiots trying to get our name changed have been suggesting names like Pigskins, Redskin Potatoes and Redtails. Ive heard Senators and Federals which are downright offensive to me because honoring the Government that forced us to throw our team's tradition away is insulting us and giving them undue credit.

Warriors isn't too bad and we could use the spear helmet I guess...but they'll still be the Redskins to me. Hogs...at least that would have some actual meaning for the fans but still an inferior name to Redskins.

We could always go Washington Americans and rightfully steal the America's Team identity from an impotent Dallas team.

That we can all agree on!!

Originally Posted by MonkeyDad

Look at the state of our society...the celebrity worship over learning history and following the news...the addiction to cellphones instead of playing with our children...letting the schools and Government be the parents of our kids...all of the people who'd rather sit at home and collect welfare than work and be proud of their contributions to society...we're supposed to listen to these people and just throw away 80 years of tradition because of how they feel today?

Regarding this statement, I'll say this.. Take out some 2013 terminology and this is basically the same argument that was used against changing Jim Crow laws 50 or so years ago. Not casting aspersions upon you, just saying, that's part of the issue with this discussion.

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

I'd agree, if actual Native Americans were protesting in the streets...sure, change it. We'd owe them the respect. However, that's not what's happening, it's the PC crowd trying to get more control over our lives. After they get their way, they'll move on to the next target without blinking an eye.

So they have to protest in the streets? Come on.... Just because they aren't rioting somewhere, doesn't mean they are happy with it. With the amount of media coverage they get, how would most people know how they really feel?

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

So they have to protest in the streets? Come on.... Just because they aren't rioting somewhere, doesn't mean they are happy with it. With the amount of media coverage they get, how would most people know how they really feel?

Also doesn't mean they are unhappy with it either. What they are unhappy about, and I have been told this by a Native American, is those people who think they need to speak for the Native Americans. The NA are more offended by that than the Redskins name. Time to move on folks. Long live the Washington Redskins.

[Alvin Walton]

The Washington Firewater Drunkards

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Also doesn't mean they are unhappy with it either. What they are unhappy about, and I have been told this by a Native American, is those people who think they need to speak for the Native Americans. The NA are more offended by that than the Redskins name. Time to move on folks. Long live the Washington Redskins.

Very true.

With that, I'm off to Subway to support RGIII's career.