Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

^DUDE! Innocent until proven guilty! Gosh! (/sarcasm)

Go to China. They convict people without allowing them a defense all the time. You'll fit right in.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Go to China. They convict people without allowing them a defense all the time. You'll fit right in.

At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?

In that situation Hernandez would have the opportunity to speak for himself. He will have had the opportunity to provide a defense, which to this point has been completely lacking. Such a defense is important in justice and in humane treatment, except in Cultbrennanland, where no evidence is required and people are guilty only because the all-seeing Cult says they are.

As for the China part, you have not gotten my point at all or you wouldn't say that or the other inhumane things that you have said on the subject. You have no understanding at all of the value of due process or ethical behavior towards an accused.

But, as we've seen again and again, you're not going to let silly things like morals get in the way of your pointless, short-term, superficial titilllation.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

In that situation Hernandez would have the opportunity to speak for himself. He will have had the opportunity to provide a defense, which to this point has been completely lacking. Such a defense is important in justice and in humane treatment, except in Cultbrennanland, where no evidence is required and people are guilty only because the all-seeing Cult says they are.

As for the China part, you have not gotten my point at all or you wouldn't say that or the other inhumane things that you have said on the subject. You have no understanding at all of the value of due process or ethical behavior towards an accused.

But, as we've seen again and again, you're not going to let silly things like morals get in the way of your pointless, short-term, superficial titilllation.

First off, I'm almost certain your some super Buddhist thats all free loving and sees only good in all people; that people can do no wrong. (Thats what I've gathered from past arguments with you and from todays arguments)
You also seem like someone who was mad that Bin Laden didn't get a trial either.

And by that scenario/example I had listed, a trial wasn't what I was referring to. Its not something that would occur elsewhere, it can definitely occur here. I'm referring to the arraignment that occurred today where the lawyer is going over evidence and Hernandez is sitting there silent. So I don't need your smart ass remarks about Cult land. Right now, You, are on no more of a pedestal of knowledge than I am on this subject. Your view of 'he needs to speak in court and we need to hear his side of the story' gets washed further and further away with the more and more evidence that comes out.

I think he's guilty, you think the evidence is leaning towards that he's guilty. He's going to get his trial like everyone else has before him. What the hell else do you want to argue about?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

^DUDE! Innocent until proven guilty! Gosh! (/sarcasm)

I don't get your sarcasm. Neither Lotus, nor I, ever said disregard forensic evidence, prosecutorial statements, or "hard" circumstantial evidence presented in court. But, we (the collective internet jury pool) had NONE of that up until around 2pm today. Before any of that, it was and is reasonable to say "let's wait and see". Today, based on presentation in court - sh** got real.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't get your sarcasm. Neither Lotus, nor I, ever said disregard forensic evidence, prosecutorial statements, or "hard" circumstantial evidence presented in court. But, we (the collective internet jury pool) had NONE of that up until around 2pm today. Before any of that, it was and is reasonable to say "let's wait and see". Today, based on presentation in court - sh** got real.

Although it is still possible that someone else in the car besides Hernandez did the actual shooting.

It also is true that we have only heard from the prosecution, not the defense. If every trial were prosecution-only, DA's would never lose in court. And we would have a justice system like China's.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Although it is still possible that someone else in the car besides Hernandez did the actual shooting.

And that is definitely true. But in felony murder, if he was in the car at the same time he will be charged as if he pulled the trigger.

In my opinion, with the court testimony today, short of some huge frame up, which no one is alleging yet, I think a reasonable person can make some basic judgements. Still, I would hope that the jurors that here this case, if no plea deal follows, would go in with the belief that the cops, prosecutors, and DA's office have the burden to show he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

My issue always is people riding the wave of immediate, unverified, items that people are pulling out left and right.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

And that is definitely true. But in felony murder, if he was in the car at the same time he will be charged as if he pulled the trigger.

In my opinion, with the court testimony today, short of some huge frame up, which no one is alleging yet, I think a reasonable person can make some basic judgements. Still, I would hope that the jurors that here this case, if no plea deal follows, would go in with the belief that the cops, prosecutors, and DA's office have the burden to show he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

My issue always is people riding the wave of immediate, unverified, items that people are pulling out left and right.

[SmootSmack]

Weren't there 4 people in the car? How has there been no mention at all of the other two guys?

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Weren't there 4 people in the car? How has there been no mention at all of the other two guys?

They'll be brought to trial, but most likely police questioned them and they all pointed the finger at Hernandez. More to come for sure.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Weren't there 4 people in the car? How has there been no mention at all of the other two guys?

My assumption is Chrissy and Paulie have already knockoff and buried these two at the farm on the orders of Aaron Hernandez Soprano.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Weren't there 4 people in the car? How has there been no mention at all of the other two guys?

It's called snitches.

[mooby]

Early evidence definitely not looking good for Hernandez. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when I first heard about this, but I have a hard time believing he didn't have any role in this. If he is guilty, it will be a shame, and he'll just be the next name in a long line of talented people who threw it all away over some dumb shit.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Weren't there 4 people in the car? How has there been no mention at all of the other two guys?

The DA referenced them as being with Hernandez both before and after the murder saying surveillance cams showed AH and two friends accompanied the victim. Their names are being withheld. The DA is saying the murder was orchestrated by AH.

Was rereading DA's statements. Apparently, there is footage of AH with a gun before and after the murder. The gun used to kill the victim was matched by ballistics with the gun AH used in the May incident for which he is being sued in a civil action. This particular gun is now missing and was not found when the home was searched although two others were.

[JoeRedskin]

Court has issued a gag order so I think this all we will hear for a while.