D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Dude, call it whatever you want.

So I'm right then? You're conceding?

[diehardskin2982]

He has loss the offense for sure. That happened when Portis spoke out. I'm suprised we haven't heard about snyder putting a bunch a vanilla ice cream in his office or something because he is so perdictable. Zorn was a great pick up for ofensive coordinator, but they should of kept G williams as head coach and promoted Blanche to d coordinator.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

He has loss the offense for sure. That happened when Portis spoke out. I'm suprised we haven't heard about snyder putting a bunch a vanilla ice cream in his office or something because he is so perdictable. Zorn was a great pick up for ofensive coordinator, but they should of kept G williams as head coach and promoted Blanche to d coordinator.

How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.

Beat me to it. Doesn't it suck when some peoples hindsight isn't 20/20?

[skinsnut]

I will throw out a crazy idea...
If you were Snyder, what would you do with the HEAD COACH situation at the end of the year.

I would leave it alone....

Otherwise, I'd hire an experience Offensive Coordinator with the intention of promoting him to head coach within a year if he succeeded.

After all, Zorn is mostly responsible for the passing game which has been lame...If he has failed as a head coach, he has certainly failed at his offensive coordinator job. The reason Danny kept everything else the same was for continuity ie., lack of confidence in a rookie who has never called a play.

Oh yeah, his only other responsibility is to inspire the team to play well.
I feel that is where he has failed the most.

I hope this is just a learning experience and that he freaks out like most head coaches would...we'll just have to see...unfortunately, this should have happened during the Dallas game a month ago.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I will throw out a crazy idea...
If you were Snyder, what would you do with the HEAD COACH situation at the end of the year.

I would leave it alone....

Otherwise, I'd hire an experience Offensive Coordinator with the intention of promoting him to head coach within a year if he succeeded.

After all, Zorn is mostly responsible for the passing game which has been lame...If he has failed as a head coach, he has certainly failed at his offensive coordinator job. The reason Danny kept everything else the same was for continuity ie., lack of confidence in a rookie who has never called a play.

Oh yeah, his only other responsibility is to inspire the team to play well.
I feel that is where he has failed the most.

I hope this is just a learning experience and that he freaks out like most head coaches would...we'll just have to see...unfortunately, this should have happened during the Dallas game a month ago.

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

He has loss the offense for sure. That happened when Portis spoke out.

If Zorn gets fired, it will not be due to final record.
It will because of leadership ability.
The fact that Zorn did not give Portis a major smackdown screams of a leadership problem.....could anyone imagine that happening with Parcells?

Why do you all think Dallas is a mess?
You got it....Head Coaching leadership issues.

Its been several years of HC leadership respect building since Gibbs took over from Spurrier. This Portis fiasco was the first test showing who is really in control.....unfortunately, it is the players.
You can't win with that setup....even if none of your players are jerks like we are blessed to have.

[TheSmurfs22]

I love this team and love them no matter what, however is Cowher is the answer and would Cowher even want to come to Washington?

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.

Yeah, that appears to be the multi-million dollar question. One I'm scared to answer.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'd say a team has quit when it gets down 17-0 to the Bengals in the first place.

The team has not quit!!! We have too many high character guys on this team to say stupid crap like that.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by TheSmurfs22

I love this team and love them no matter what, however is Cowher is the answer and would Cowher even want to come to Washington?

What I'd like if Cowher took over:

He'd build up the lines...a perfect match for us
We'd play with FIRE...another perfect match

What I wouldn't like
Playcalling would be run heavy....a good match if we upgraded Oline
He'd neglect the passing game....would neglect Moss
We'd probably move to a 3-4...bad, we're short of quality DT, NT and LB

Overall question mark would be....who's GM.
If you fix that, everything gets better in 2-3 years regardless of coach.

Question:
How would you rate FO this year?
Most gave great review of draft early on (except TE)

I say, out of 10 picks, they have all essentially sucked, except Horton.
(even a squirrel finds a nut occasionally)
To hang a hat on that is not saying much.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Why is it that everyone blames Zorn and not the FO (Vinny) look at teams with rookie coaches and the men behind the scenes in the FO. Atlanta (Demetriov), Miami (Parcells), Baltimore (Newsome) and Washington (Cerrato). This is the difference. Dan Snyder if you are reading this board do us all a favor and fire Vinny or hire him as your chauffeur, butler, cook whatever, anything but GM of the Washington Redskins.

I'm not one to say that Zorn needs to go. But his offense sucks so bad it's not even funny. All the checking down and short passes that are not beyond the first down makers are just plain bad coaching. He's calling screens and sweeps on the last drive when we need to be throwing it in the damn end zone. I almost threw my beer at my TV. He does that shit over and over again. He's running Moss on these stupid ass slants and Moss isn't that type of WR. Put Kelly in if you want to throw freakin slants. It's just sooooo many little things I see that makes this offense a pile of garbage.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

What I'd like if Cowher took over:

Overall question mark would be....who's GM.
If you fix that, everything gets better in 2-3 years regardless of coach.

Cowher serves as the team GM. In short he would hypothetically wield the same power Marty had during his season in Washington.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'm not one to say that Zorn needs to go. But his offense sucks so bad it's not even funny. All the checking down and short passes that are not beyond the first down makers are just plain bad coaching. He's calling screens and sweeps on the last drive when we need to be throwing it in the damn end zone. I almost threw my beer at my TV. He does that shit over and over again. He's running Moss on these stupid ass slants and Moss isn't that type of WR. Put Kelly in if you want to throw freakin slants. It's just sooooo many little things I see that makes this offense a pile of garbage.

Okay, so you have a roll out to Devin Thomas, who is supposed to run a hitch past the marker, runs it too short, and drops the ball anyway. What's Zorn's error here (multiple choice style!):

A) That he should have told Devin Thomas to go past the marker (has the kid ever seen a football before)
B) That he should not have been throwing the ball to Devin Thomas in a 3rd and short (even though we would have a bunch of "where are the rookies" threads even had we won)
C) That he should not have been throwing a rollout at all (even though you just two days ago called for more rollouts in the offense)
D) All of the above

I agree that it's a bunch of little things, but we can't act like Zorn's not making any adjustments. Perhaps you just can't sustain offense with this group of WRs.