Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Weren't there 4 people in the car? How has there been no mention at all of the other two guys?

The DA referenced them as being with Hernandez both before and after the murder saying surveillance cams showed AH and two friends accompanied the victim. Their names are being withheld. The DA is saying the murder was orchestrated by AH.

Was rereading DA's statements. Apparently, there is footage of AH with a gun before and after the murder. The gun used to kill the victim was matched by ballistics with the gun AH used in the May incident for which he is being sued in a civil action. This particular gun is now missing and was not found when the home was searched although two others were.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't get your sarcasm. Neither Lotus, nor I, ever said disregard forensic evidence, prosecutorial statements, or "hard" circumstantial evidence presented in court. But, we (the collective internet jury pool) had NONE of that up until around 2pm today. Before any of that, it was and is reasonable to say "let's wait and see". Today, based on presentation in court - sh** got real.

Although it is still possible that someone else in the car besides Hernandez did the actual shooting.

It also is true that we have only heard from the prosecution, not the defense. If every trial were prosecution-only, DA's would never lose in court. And we would have a justice system like China's.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Although it is still possible that someone else in the car besides Hernandez did the actual shooting.

And that is definitely true. But in felony murder, if he was in the car at the same time he will be charged as if he pulled the trigger.

In my opinion, with the court testimony today, short of some huge frame up, which no one is alleging yet, I think a reasonable person can make some basic judgements. Still, I would hope that the jurors that here this case, if no plea deal follows, would go in with the belief that the cops, prosecutors, and DA's office have the burden to show he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

My issue always is people riding the wave of immediate, unverified, items that people are pulling out left and right.

[JoeRedskin]

Court has issued a gag order so I think this all we will hear for a while.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

And that is definitely true. But in felony murder, if he was in the car at the same time he will be charged as if he pulled the trigger.

In my opinion, with the court testimony today, short of some huge frame up, which no one is alleging yet, I think a reasonable person can make some basic judgements. Still, I would hope that the jurors that here this case, if no plea deal follows, would go in with the belief that the cops, prosecutors, and DA's office have the burden to show he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

My issue always is people riding the wave of immediate, unverified, items that people are pulling out left and right.

[JoeRedskin]

If the police have followed the proper procedures, protected the chain of custody, and have solid forensic evidence of all the things asserted by the DA, AH should cut the best deal he can get. However, those are some significant "ifs". Perhaps the forensics is more fuzzy then the DA asserts. Perhaps there is a gap in the survelliance that AH says "that's when I left". Perhaps the surveillance photos aren't as clear as the prosecutor says (" that's a book not a gun" ), perhaps perhaps perhaps. It's why we have trials.

Me? I think he is guilty and that the prosecutor wouldn't be making such detailed allegations in this very high profile case unless he could back it up. No prosecutor wants to be accused of "OJ'ing" it.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If the police have followed the proper procedures, protected the chain of custody, and have solid forensic evidence of all the things asserted by the DA, AH should cut the best deal he can get. However, those are some significant "ifs". Perhaps the forensics is more fuzzy then the DA asserts. Perhaps there is a gap in the survelliance that AH says "that's when I left". Perhaps the surveillance photos aren't as clear as the prosecutor says (" that's a book not a gun" ), perhaps perhaps perhaps. It's why we have trials.

Me? I think he is guilty and that the prosecutor wouldn't be making such detailed allegations in this very high profile case unless he could back it up. No prosecutor wants to be accused of "OJ'ing" it.

I could see that....
AND there is no mention of a glove....so that's good.

[NC_Skins]

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Go to China. They convict people without allowing them a defense all the time. You'll fit right in.

At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?

[CultBrennan59]

Can someone remind me what the 'evidence' was on Ray Lewis back in 00? I forget what they said he did. Did he have like a bloody T-shirt or something?

[skinsfaninok]

Shaking my head

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Can someone remind me what the 'evidence' was on Ray Lewis back in 00? I forget what they said he did. Did he have like a bloody T-shirt or something?

See my post @ 118 and the article I referenced.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?

a jury shouldn't say he is guilty till both sides present their arguments. commenters on a website probably wouldn't wait, but even in your scenario I can think mental health reasons and frames that would end up clearing a mans name to some degree if not entirely.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?

In that situation Hernandez would have the opportunity to speak for himself. He will have had the opportunity to provide a defense, which to this point has been completely lacking. Such a defense is important in justice and in humane treatment, except in Cultbrennanland, where no evidence is required and people are guilty only because the all-seeing Cult says they are.

As for the China part, you have not gotten my point at all or you wouldn't say that or the other inhumane things that you have said on the subject. You have no understanding at all of the value of due process or ethical behavior towards an accused.

But, as we've seen again and again, you're not going to let silly things like morals get in the way of your pointless, short-term, superficial titilllation.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

a jury shouldn't say he is guilty till both sides present their arguments. commenters on a website probably wouldn't wait, but even in your scenario I can think mental health reasons and frames that would end up clearing a mans name to some degree if not entirely.

See and thats one of the many problems with our court system is sane people will pull that card that they are 'insane'. But like I said no court system is perfect. I guess the next step is to see what history of health problems Hernandez has (Bi-polar, Schizophrenic, mentally insane, etc.) to see if he can or will use that excuse.

Another thing I wouldn't be surprised to see is if AH (or whomever in his car) did it in self-defense. Thats the other very common excuse we hear in these kinds of court cases. Although it maybe late to say that if he didn't report that to police immediately.