Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Damn... that's a dick-move.

I'm not saying what he did was right, but to go to that length to retaliate is pretty childish if you ask me.

Way to completely ignore the point and attack the person matty.

Now, #1- I am HUGE animal rights activist, so at worst, I was accomplishing getting the poor animal some food.
#2- What, so he can treat people like shit without the thought he will get something in return? You don't treat my wife that way, and I would assume you would not allow someone to treat your wife that way, but since he is "homeless" (or assumed homeless) you allow it???? Shame on you matty.

Usually, even if I don't agree with your points of view, you give a good side to the story, but your post was the only thing that was "childish". Hopefully we can move on and stick to issues.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well I wouldn't have done it but I am struck by the fact that some think we are supposed to care enough to help these type of people unconditionally but we are not supposed care enough to do anything when they act like this.

It seems like it is saying "This guy deserves our help but don't dare judge him on any actions he takes. It's not your place."

I am not saying that you are saying that Matty but it seems like a lot of people want everyone to help without question or even active participation unless it is to only bring sunshine and blow smoke.

That guy needs more people to tell him off. Maybe if enough people put him in his place rather than give him handouts he'll figure out how to get his life on track.

Thank you...I agree.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Don't help the guy...hell don't even give him the time of day. But I fail to see what a childish retaliation like that accomplishes. Somehow I don't think tough love is going to change most people like that.

ignoring it is condoning it. Maybe next time he will think twice about treating someone like that. Maybe he'll think...damn, I guess I pissed that guy off, maybe I shouldn't talk to people's wives like that...maybe the next time some guy will knock my teeth out instead.
But to ignore it, is condoning it, and I refuse to allow that.
My wife was taking him up on his offer of "will work for food". She reached out to help a man that she thought was in geniune need, turns out he's just a leech on society. He could have just said "no thanks" and nothing would have happened.
I'm shocked to realize that there are people out there that aren't willing to put a stop to misbehavior.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Way to completely ignore the point and attack the person matty.

Now, #1- I am HUGE animal rights activist, so at worst, I was accomplishing getting the poor animal some food.
#2- What, so he can treat people like shit without the thought he will get something in return? You don't treat my wife that way, and I would assume you would not allow someone to treat your wife that way, but since he is "homeless" (or assumed homeless) you allow it???? Shame on you matty.

Usually, even if I don't agree with your points of view, you give a good side to the story, but your post was the only thing that was "childish". Hopefully we can move on and stick to issues.

LOL I'm sure you had the animal's best interests in mind while you were driving back to wal-mart probably royally pissed off.

Like I said, what he did to your wife wasn't right, but as the old saying goes two wrongs does not make a right.

I'm sticking to my original opinion that what you did was a dick-move and very childish and even more so you showed your immaturity by bragging about it here.

It takes the bigger man to walk away from a situation like that. Tell me, what exactly did you get out of doing that? Satisfaction that you put someone in his place? Did it make you feel tough or macho or something?

Seriously, what did you gain from doing that?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Even the most bleeding heart liberal on the planet will admit that drugs/alcohol are nearly inseperable from the problem of homelessness. Someone mentioned the Vietnam Vets earlier. Even for them the trauma of combat was probably not enough to make them dysfunctional. You add alcohol or opiates, though, and they go downhill very quickly.

And it's not just homelessness. If you were to remove drug and alcohol abuse (and I mean the severe cases, not the borderline ones on their way to being severe, hmmm, hmmm), you could watch all manner of social ills disappear like that proverbial fart in the wind. Joseph Califano who worked for LBJ and is a Democrat is very strong on this issue. If you are interested in some statistics that will knock your socks off, you might search on him.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum. Even the most capable, the most intellectual, and the strongest among us have felt life's pressure to the extent it has driven us to behave in unseemly ways. What I'm getting at is removing drugs from our society won't elimate homelessness or any other social ill. Drugs and alchohol probably exacerbate homelessness, no doubt, but I don't think it disappears like a fart in the wind.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

LOL I'm sure you had the animal's best interests in mind while you were driving back to wal-mart probably royally pissed off.

My initial intention was to give him a piece of my mind, and maybe take a tooth as souvenier, but when I saw the dog, my intentions changed. Poor dog.

Like I said, what he did to your wife wasn't right, but as the old saying goes two wrongs does not make a right.

I don't think I was wrong. If your child misbehaves, you punish him correct? Granted he's not my child, but I gave him a punishment to let him know that was unacceptable. Are you wrong for punishing your child?

I'm sticking to my original opinion that what you did was a dick-move and very childish and even more so you showed your immaturity by bragging about it here.

And I'm sticking to my initial opinion of shame on you for wanting to allow such a thing.

It takes the bigger man to walk away from a situation like that.

No it doesn't. It takes the lazy man to walk away. He's cheating society, he's a cancer on the american people. The easiest thing to do would be sit back and shrug it off while maintaining an ass print on my sofa. The hardest thing to do in that scenario would be to confront it.

Tell me, what exactly did you get out of doing that? Satisfaction that you put someone in his place? Did it make you feel tough or macho or something?

1- help the dog. For as much as you would like to believe that I had no intentions of helping the dog, I did.
The rest was just my pissed off nature (which I admit I was pissed). But I most certainly take satisfaction in thinking that I may have changed his behavior towards others. It is worthy to note that he has not been seen in that area since our "conversation". I'm sure he's just a drifter and moved on, but I hope that he thinks twice about being a rude assmunch to someone else...you never know who will take it offensively and beat the piss out of him. Hey, I could have saved his life, you never know. Point being, the worst thing to do is accept that behavior.

[dmek25]

i think its funny that it seems like you have more compassion for animals, then you do your fellow humans

[MTK]

Sounds like anger issues to me. But hey, if you felt that you saved the world that day more power to you. We obviously differ when it comes to our opinions on how to properly treat others. I guess you learn something new everyday. I never knew that it took a lazy man to walk away from a confrontation. That's an impressive life lesson.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd like to see some studies or research on this issue. I see a lot of strong assumptions being made and frankly I think people are quite biased in thinking that most homeless people are just lazy drunks or drug addicts looking for handouts.

Well, as you can already tell from other people's experiences posted here, many homeless are just looking for one thing...money. Why not food? Why not water? Why ONLY money? Cause they are doing something with that money. Some know that they can get $200-$1000 a day in begging and they will go into the alley, retreive their Mercedes and drive home. Some need the money to afford their alcohol or drugs. Almost all use it in an inappropriate manner. Fact is, you give them what they want, and you are making the situation worse. There are plenty of homeless shelters across this country. Why is it they are too proud to get a warm cup of soup, or nice sandwich, but they aren't too proud to beg on the corner and not work for food or money.
Since when did we become a country of "If you don't want to help yourself, we'll keep helping you over and over again until you realize that you don't need to do anything to deserve help?"

[MTK]

If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.

Just curious, are you in favor of any sort of charity? Or does it have to come with a laundry list of exceptions?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sounds like anger issues to me. But hey, if you felt that you saved the world that day more power to you. We obviously differ when it comes to our opinions on how to properly treat others. I guess you learn something new everyday. I never knew that it took a lazy man to walk away from a confrontation. That's an impressive life lesson.

Well, I wasn't confronted, my wife was.
It started as anger issues...that I am not denying. The fact that he didn't get knocked out shows the anger issues subsided.
I think where we differ is where you would allow someone to mistreat you or your wife, I won't. We also differ in the thought that I think by giving him money, you are making the situation worse, while you think you're "helping".

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.

I've always been a spare change giver outer type of guy. Hmm...sounds like a cool Bud Light Real Men of Empathy commercial.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I agree here too. But the fact is, many Americans are probably one or two paychecks away from being pretty darn close to homeless. I think what separates them from the homeless guy or woman, in some cases at least, is they actually have either the sheer tenacity or the resourses to actually keep them off the streets.

I guess my position on this really stems from two things: My belief in the scriptures that adheres to the idea that we should feed the hungry, provide shelter for the homeless, and cloth the naked. To me that's not just a Christian tenet, but a human tenet as well. I also think there is something very American about taking care of those less fortunate. Of course, all things must be done in balance and not put too much of a strain on those that keep the ecomony churning, but I think you guys get the spirit of what I saying here.

And let me say this one last thing too - I don't think the question of whether or not many are deserving should enter into the equation. Because I've received a lot of shit over the course of my life that I didn't deserve, and yet here I am.

True dat. I would suggest all of us sitting here reading this thread have received benefits from persons and events beyond are control. Likely as not, some have been harmed in the same fashion. It is for this reason I constantly repeat to myself when I see those less fortunate than myself "There but for the grace of God go I."

Well said 12th.

[FRPLG]

I think my point of view stems from my belief that I KNOW that if you took every possession I won and all my money. Separated me from my family. Erased my educational history and work experience. If i had to star with totally nothing, I know I could have a job and a place to live by the end of the week. It simply isn't that hard. Again, there are many that need help and will do what is necessary to get it. These are the people we should focus on helping. It is our responsibility. But there are certainly people who simply won't do what they need to 'earn' their help. And I simply am not in favor of helping people who won't use the help to get to a point where they don't need it anymore.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.

They didn't ask for a buck...they asked work for food, my wife offered, he said F.U. Open shut case here matty.

Just curious, are you in favor of any sort of charity? Or does it have to come with a laundry list of exceptions?

I have already explained the charities I give to, in fact I would wager I give more than 95% of the people here. (not that I'm judging anyone, it comes from the heart and I completely understand if people won't or even can't give to charities) I refuse to give to "charities" of people that won't help themselves.