D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

I think people critical of Campbell are looking at the stats a bit more than you think. Their point is valid. Consider:

Over the first 8 games when we went 6-2, Campbell's stats were impressive. 219 yards per game, 66% completion, 7.6 yards per attempt, and most impressively 8 TDs and 0 INTs. His QB rating hovered around 100.

Over the last 5 games (not including today's Bengals game in which he was mediocre), he has dropped to 205 yards per game, 59.4% completion, 5.5 yards per attempt, 3 TDs and 6 INTs.

Those numbers look familiar. Campbell in 2007:

207 yards per game, 60% completion, 6.5 yards per attempt, 12 TDs and 11 INTs.

He has indeed faced extremely tough defenses during this time. Today's Bengals performance was better, so I can't say he's regressed. But he's certainly not making "the leap" either. I haven't seen him make any game-changing plays for us in a while now.

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.

Hindsight is 20/20. Lets look at what Zorn has done well, he helped Campbell get better (at first), he went 6-2. Zorn right now in my opinion is wearing too many hats as Headcoach. He is a First Time headcoach, and a first time playcaller. Maybe it would have been better to have Blanche as Headcoach and Zorn as O-coordinator and QB Coach. Or maybe Zorn should let Sherman Smith do his job and call the plays. My problem with Zorn is that he seems to lack leadership, he calls out players and blames others for his mistakes.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

I'm not so sure he's a whole lot better. His has a a higher completion % cause all he does is throw passes 10 yards and under. I think he'd be just as good if not better if he stayed in Al's offense. I've yet to see Zorn let JC do something he was real good at under Al. Run the no huddle. Poor coaching.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The team has not quit!!! We have too many high character guys on this team to say stupid crap like that.

So we have lots of "high character guys" who just plain suck?

They mailed it in today. I don't see why people find that statement so appalling.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.

I think Zorn has done a poor job of delegating his responsibilities, but this is an easy adjustment made in the offseason.

I think, first and foremost, that we are ignoring obvious good things about the offense when we point out that it isn't scoring points. We were on the freaking one inch line with downs to go and couldn't get it in, which can't be put on the coaching. Our kicker is really struggling, which can't be put on the coaching, or the offense at all.

And then I think that the offensive personnel is not nearly as good as it was last year. Well, it's close, but all the changes were downgrades.

That, and we were missing two offensive lineman this game.

None of that can be put on Zorn. His adjustments haven't helped us score points, but he is doing a much better job than Blache is, with less to work with. For all the crap we give Cerrato for his DL acquisitions, his inability to add anything of consequence to the offense has put Zorn in a position where, for the year, his unit has greatly overachieved.

And while the holes were there last year, they're nothing like the holes we've opened for him this year. Portis' success is a lot individual, but a lot due to the scheme change upfront, which improved the blocking at 4/5 positions, while making them easier to read for Portis because it's very close to what he had in Denver. We're a top five line blocking for the run, or at least we were with Samuels.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So we have lots of "high character guys" who just plain suck?

They mailed it in today. I don't see why people find that statement so appalling.

Because it's false.

Outside of that, you might be onto something.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Because it's false.

Outside of that, you might be onto something.

Dude, get real. The Skins were completely flat in the first quarter. They started fighting in the second quarter. But you could tell after Cooley fumbled the defense was not emotionally up, and they came out and got ran up on by Cedric Benson.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So we have lots of "high character guys" who just plain suck?

They mailed it in today. I don't see why people find that statement so appalling.

I wouldn't say they suck. They're just not as good as we all think they are.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Because it's false.

Outside of that, you might be onto something.

Yep, falling to the Bengals with a playoff berth hanging in the balance was actually a Herculean effort.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

[/b]

I'm not so sure he's a whole lot better. His has a a higher completion % cause all he does is throw passes 10 yards and under. I think he'd be just as good if not better if he stayed in Al's offense. I've yet to see Zorn let JC do something he was real good at under Al. Run the no huddle. Poor coaching.

I think Campbell will likely suggest the no huddle in the offseason, and Zorn will let him do it.

Campbell's INT rate is second in the NFL to Jeff Garcia, his pocket presence has significantly improved (arguably out of necessity), and he will never have to face a schedule of pass defenses as hard as he had to this season the rest of his career.

The drop in interception rate has not come at the expense of any of the rest of his production. He was a 1 to 1 type guy in TD/INT ratio through 2007, he's now a 2 to 1 type guy. The completion percentage increase shows that his decreased INT rate is real, not a fluke, suggests that perhaps the fact that his TD rate isn't any high might be a fluke, and he's actually improved his Y/A, albiet slightly.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think Campbell will likely suggest the no huddle in the offseason, and Zorn will let him do it.

Campbell's INT rate is second in the NFL to Jeff Garcia, his pocket presence has significantly improved (arguably out of necessity), and he will never have to face a schedule of pass defenses as hard as he had to this season the rest of his career.

The drop in interception rate has not come at the expense of any of the rest of his production. He was a 1 to 1 type guy in TD/INT ratio through 2007, he's now a 2 to 1 type guy. The completion percentage increase shows that his decreased INT rate is real, not a fluke, suggests that perhaps the fact that his TD rate isn't any high might be a fluke, and he's actually improved his Y/A, albiet slightly.

You're comparing the 2008 Campbell as if he's still the same guy he was in the first 8 games. See my previous post, it's been a tale of two seasons. He has 6 INTs in the last 6 games.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post512011

[tryfuhl]

[quote=bjschmonsees;511695]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

Snyder only let go of General Schottenheimer because he wouldn't share the personnel decision duties with a GM. He had a 8-8 first season.
QUOTE]


There is a huge diffence between going 0-5 and finishing 8-8 and starting 6-2 and going 8-8...

what.. the order of sucking vs doing well?

0-5 then 8-3.. or this year 6-2 then maybe 2-6 if we really do go 8-8

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Dude, get real. The Skins were completely flat in the first quarter. They started fighting in the second quarter. But you could tell after Cooley fumbled the defense was not emotionally up, and they came out and got ran up on by Cedric Benson.

Did you even know that the Lions were up two TDs on the Bucs this year in the first quarter?

Here's the point: you can't assume that the team coming out flat is because of any coaching issue. Sometimes, the opponent just capitalizes on the sudden change opportunity. The sample size isn't big enough to claim a conclusive evidence.

I'm glad Cedric Benson almost got 3.5 yards per carry against us and thusly we can assume that someone wasn't trying.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think Zorn has done a poor job of delegating his responsibilities, but this is an easy adjustment made in the offseason.

I think, first and foremost, that we are ignoring obvious good things about the offense when we point out that it isn't scoring points. We were on the freaking one inch line with downs to go and couldn't get it in, which can't be put on the coaching. Our kicker is really struggling, which can't be put on the coaching, or the offense at all.

And then I think that the offensive personnel is not nearly as good as it was last year. Well, it's close, but all the changes were downgrades.

That, and we were missing two offensive lineman this game.

None of that can be put on Zorn. His adjustments haven't helped us score points, but he is doing a much better job than Blache is, with less to work with. For all the crap we give Cerrato for his DL acquisitions, his inability to add anything of consequence to the offense has put Zorn in a position where, for the year, his unit has greatly overachieved.

And while the holes were there last year, they're nothing like the holes we've opened for him this year. Portis' success is a lot individual, but a lot due to the scheme change upfront, which improved the blocking at 4/5 positions, while making them easier to read for Portis because it's very close to what he had in Denver. We're a top five line blocking for the run, or at least we were with Samuels.

So let's see here. We have a top ten defense, the defesne has kept us in every single game this year, even w/out having a pass rusher and the offense is pretty much last in scoring and you say Zorn is doing his job better than Blache???????? Sorry Tripp but you're flat out wrong here.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

You're comparing the 2008 Campbell as if he's still the same guy he was in the first 8 games. See my previous post, it's been a tale of two seasons. He has 6 INTs in the last 6 games.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...tml#post512011

He also played 4 great defenses, and has zero INTs against the two weaker defenses he's faced. He's also getting little help.

Part of this six game stretch, Campbell was struggling to see the field, but he's clearly seeing it well now. To lump his last three games in with the first two games in this series, while eliminating anything before the Pittsburgh is selective sampling.