What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

[mlmpetert]

Ive meant to post this 2 weeks ago, but ive been way too busy with real life stuff….

Im posting this for those like me that see a lot of similarities in GB’s offense and DC’s offense. 30gut gave a great breakdown between the differences and this adds to his comparison.

http://www.thewarpath.net/873233-post210.html

My opinion was, if Matt Flynn can be successful in GB’s offense then I think he has a high likelihood of finding success in our offense, partly because I view both offenses as very similar. But a couple people, namely GTripp and 30gut, kept saying that the systems are very different, so the argument that Flynn would be good in Kyle’s system because hes been good in GB’s system is flawed.

I went looking for more info about the Redskins system and GB’s system and came across this article by GTripp:

Kyle Shanahan, the vertical offense, and Rex Grossman | November

Of all the stuff I tried to find on the Redskins offense this is probably the most detailed and analytic. I sent him a PM asking if I could post his article and the following:

………I started looking around for the differences between GB’s and DC’s offense mainly because of some things you’ve said in the Matt Flynn thread. Besides both being WCO’s w zone running games you’ve said the 2 offenses are very different. I admit that im completely inept when it comes to judging the differences between offenses, but to me they seem pretty similar. In fact ive always thought, after Houston’s, GB’s offense seemed the most similar to ours.

From your article and some other things ive read it seems that Kyle’s passing philosophy is more risky and vertical then GB’s. It also seems a big part of GB’s offense is to allow for much more improv from the receivers and Rodger’s when plays break down or pockets collapse, whereas exact timing and precision takes on a much greater importance in Kyle’s scheme.

I was wondering if you could touch on what you view as the major differences between the 2 offenses and why you think someone like Flynn would or wouldn’t have success in Kyle’s scheme. Or besides a “superstar” QB like Luck who do you think would have success in Kyle’s offense that may also be obtainable, do you think RGIII or even someone like Henne or McCoy could be successful in Kyle’s system?

Relevant part of GTripp’s response:

"It's not that I do not think Matt Flynn wouldn't be able to handle Kyle's scheme, but it's more that the Green Bay offense is so much more wide open and devastating to defenses with the way it forces you to show your hand before the snap. Kyle's offense, on a lot of his passing plays, requires absolutely no thinking before the snap. You just take it and your eyes go right to the primary receiver and get the ball out as soon as he is open.

Kyle mass protects pretty much anything he does on first and second down for those downfield attacks. Green Bay will sometimes spread the field and force the defense to cover every inch. That allows Green Bay to put defenses in a position where mismatches are inevitable. Where as Washington will use longer developing route combinations to try to move the coverage in order to create a throw.

I don't think any player is really a bad fit for the Kyle Shanahan system: it's not a difficult one to play quarterback in. A lot of the interceptions our quarterbacks throw is just a result of the play design: if you're only putting two receivers in the route and running play action, you're kind of counting on the linebackers being up around the line of scrimmage. There's just no way you can run two receivers where they can beat six defenders in coverage. But I think guys who are experienced passers like Chad Henne with erratic streaks, or a guy who plays a bit erratically in college, like Landry Jones, can find a good home into this system.

Because the system Kyle runs is really pretty limited, those passers who get criticized for being inconsistent decision makers can become more productive players here because we're not asking the quarterback to do anything besides be a tough pocket passer, hang in there, and go play. I don't think Flynn wouldn't be able to execute that system, I think he would, but why get in a bidding war for a guy who won't be able to take the Green Bay system and receivers with him?"

[30gut]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

My opinion was, if Matt Flynn can be successful in GB’s offense then I think he has a high likelihood of finding success in our offense, partly because I view both offenses as very similar. But a couple people, namely GTripp and 30gut, kept saying that the systems are very different, so the argument that Flynn would be good in Kyle’s system because hes been good in GB’s system is flawed.

My point was and remains that if Flynn is successful in this offense its gonna because of his physical skillset not because the schemes are 'very similar'.
Which was a point being made here:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

System is very similar to Kyle's......And I don't get carried away with physical talents or "gifts".

Valuing schematic familiarity over skillset.

Here's what I said then in response to the above quote:

Originally Posted by 30gut

In what way?
In a sense all NFL systems are similar.
For me a similar scheme is one where the core concepts and verbiage are the same to the point where the name of the play in one system is either the same or very close to the name of the same play in the other system.
For example David Anderson came from Houston and was able to play right away because he spoke the language of our offense.
I don't think Green Bay and our offense share the same language.
Conceptually I see Green Bay's offense as 5-7 step drop vertical rhythm passing game heavy shotgun w/a focus that attacks sideline to sideline with downflied instride especially with crossers and posts that gain RAC yardage for the WRs; with a sprinkle under center offense with 3 TEs and muliple RBs.

I see our offense as a mix of boot-swap playaction passing and 3-5-7 step rhythm passing with a focus on zone beating in-breaking or stop routes that attacks down the center of the field.

.....But throughout your advocacy for Flynn you haven't mentioned anything about his skillset.
My point is that when you sign a QB you get their skillset not their production.

......I'm not predicting whether Flynn will be good/not good.
My point is that Flynn is no different then any other journeyman/second chance QB available (Jimmy Clausen, Chad Henne, Josh Johnson, Matt Moore, etc) and they all should be judged on their skillset not their production.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 30gut

My point was and remains that if Flynn is successful in this offense its gonna because of his physical skillset not because the schemes are 'very similar'.
Which was a point being made here:

Valuing schematic familiarity over skillset.

Here's what I said then in response to the above quote:

I was pointing out that I don't fall in love with a guy's "gifts", such as Jeff George's arm or Kyle Boller's ability to throw a football 60 yards in the air from his knees. I also pointed out that Rivers throws like a girl and Brady looked like a dufus at the combine. Had nothing to do with putting more value on scheme.

[CultBrennan59]

Oh also according to Chris Russell Matt Flynn and Ryan Tannehill have the same agent..read into that or hold that as whatever info as you want.

[NC_Skins]

Get ready to cringe.

Redskins Starting Quarterbacks 1990 - Present

Our QBs since the 90's.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Get ready to cringe.

Redskins Starting Quarterbacks 1990 - Present

Our QBs since the 90's.

no wonder we suck

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Get ready to cringe.

Redskins Starting Quarterbacks 1990 - Present

Our QBs since the 90's.

Eh, we've seen that every year. Only difference is it's two names longer this year.

[skinsfaninok]

Who could Rypien be compared to in today's NFL?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Who could Rypien be compared to in today's NFL?

Mark Rypien NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

11 Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Len Dawson*, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, Elvis Grbac, Marc Bulger, Gary Danielson, Jeff Hostetler

Career Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Gary Danielson, Marc Bulger, Stan Humphries

The Scott Mitchell one works pretty well, although it's hardly current.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Who could Rypien be compared to in today's NFL?

I'd compare him to a poor man's Phillip Rivers. Kind of clumsy, doesn't look real pretty out there but throws are great deep ball and gets the job done. A lot of people forget that Rip had some pretty solid years here before the magical 91 season. In 89 The Posse all went over a 1,000 yards and he was the main guy throwing it.

[CrustyRedskin]

And to have the posse put up those kind of numbers over 20 years ago is unreal compared to the different defensive play allowed today.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Mark Rypien NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

11 Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Len Dawson*, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, Elvis Grbac, Marc Bulger, Gary Danielson, Jeff Hostetler

Career Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, Doug Flutie, Elvis Grbac, Gary Danielson, Marc Bulger, Stan Humphries

The Scott Mitchell one works pretty well, although it's hardly current.

I've seen all his highlights and the delhomme comparison seems about right

#Hail to the Redskins

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'd compare him to a poor man's Phillip Rivers. Kind of clumsy, doesn't look real pretty out there but throws are great deep ball and gets the job done. A lot of people forget that Rip had some pretty solid years here before the magical 91 season. In 89 The Posse all went over a 1,000 yards and he was the main guy throwing it.

Hell I wish we had a poor man's rivers now lmao

#Hail to the Redskins

[44Deezel]

Guess you can add Brett Favre to the list as well.

[CultBrennan59]

^exactly.