Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Your vid has been removed.
But, look I agree the decision to throw to Moss wasn't the best, because obviously he was double covered.
Did Davis look wide open while the ball was in flight on the way to Moss? Yes.
But, from the TV feed angle I don't believe there is any way to see what Griffin was seeing at the point he made the decision to throw the ball.
And imo the only way to know for sure if Davis was wide open is to see an angle wide enough to see what Griffin was seeing at the point Griffin is making the decision to throw the ball.

NFL Videos: Redskins vs. Bears highlights

The action picks up at about 2:25 and you see Fred Davis open the entire time, and all three highlight videos I've seen show this same view as well as the original broadcast.

You (as usual) just continue to argue for the sake of arguing...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

NFL Videos: Redskins vs. Bears highlights

The action picks up at about 2:25 and you see Fred Davis open the entire time, and all three highlight videos I've seen show this same view as well as the original broadcast.

You (as usual) just continue to argue for the sake of arguing...

This is one of the reasons the league was hesitant about releasing the 'All 22' film to fans, because of assumptions we make based on what we see.

We don't know where Davis was in the receiver progressions, we don't know if he was a decoy to draw coverage, we don't know if the coverage dictated the throw to Moss, we don't know what adjustments were made, hell we don't know if Davis was open because he ran the wrong route. Yes, he was open but that doesn't make it the right play.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This is one of the reasons the league was hesitant about releasing the 'All 22' film to fans, because of assumptions we make based on what we see.

We don't know where Davis was in the receiver progressions, we don't know if he was a decoy to draw coverage, we don't know if the coverage dictated the throw to Moss, we don't know what adjustments were made, hell we don't know if Davis was open because he ran the wrong route. Yes, he was open but that doesn't make it the right play.

Eventually we'll get to the point where we can cross reference the All 22 to the eyes of the quarterback. I would love to see that. It would tell us a lot more than just the overhead camera.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This is one of the reasons the league was hesitant about releasing the 'All 22' film to fans, because of assumptions we make based on what we see.

We don't know where Davis was in the receiver progressions, we don't know if he was a decoy to draw coverage, we don't know if the coverage dictated the throw to Moss, we don't know what adjustments were made, hell we don't know if Davis was open because he ran the wrong route. Yes, he was open but that doesn't make it the right play.

All very true.

I think Davis is kinda open but certainly not 'wide open'.
He's short of the 1st and would need RAC or break a tackle to convert the 1st down.
But, it is probably a safer play then throwing to a double covered Moss.

Here's how I see it:
3rd and 4
There are 2 linebackers dropping back with full view of Davis and Griffin, there is one LB #52? who is definetely keying on Davis and would have a great jump on ball thrown to Davis and since the other linebacker is also watching Griffin they would both break towards Davis upon Griffin's release of the pass.
Imo that does not constitute being 'wide open', and throwing this pass to Davis is akin to throwing a checkdown as Davis is running about 2 yards short and parrallel to the 1st down marker.

That's what I saw *shrugs*

-btw
Are you the same paintrain from extremeskins?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by The Goat

You (as usual) just continue to argue for the sake of arguing...

Wow, um my bad dude.
Here I thought we're 2 fans that are football nerds talking about a specific play.
But, if you feel that I'm arguing just to argue and I do this continually then I won't waste your time with my response.
There are plenty of Skip Bayless posts that you can respond to.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Wow, um my bad dude.
Here I thought we're 2 fans that are football nerds talking about a specific play.
But, if you feel that I'm arguing just to argue and I do this continually then I won't waste your time with my response.
There are plenty of Skip Bayless posts that you can respond to.

We're still nerds talking about football

I just can't stand it when something is obvious, black and white, and available from myriad sources to verify no less, but you want to agree to disagree lol. Davis was open from the snap.

But whoever said the play may have been designed to hit Moss using Davis as a decoy is probably right. I just meant that come regular season you want to see your QB adjust during the play and hit the open receiver for the 1st down...and I think RGIII will. That was my whole friggin point from the beginning.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Rex is white so he should start. I'm white so I am behind him 100 percent. I read cousins great great grandmother was 1/64th native American so he can be the backup. I think we should atleast pretend hes one of us. Griffin should play basketball. Or just work fast food. We need a third quarterback though. Maybe we could get DJ Qualls. He's not an athlete but he's white so I'd rather have him. Or If skip Bayless gets fired for being an asshole.

[The Goat]

^^ That's excellent. Bayless isn't worth a serious debate anyway cuz he's a joke.

[30gut]

Leave it to Skip Bayless to kill an otherwise good thread.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by IrMitchell

While he may be a Dallas fan, he supports RG3 almost to the extent that he supports Tebow.

This guy came out and said that RG3 played BETTER than Andrew Luck after their preseason debuts. What Dallas homer would say that?

One that is trying to make the point that fans are foolish especially us mostly white skins fans who are upset we drafted a black qb.

[IrMitchell]

Originally Posted by punch it in

One that is trying to make the point that fans are foolish especially us mostly white skins fans who are upset we drafted a black qb.

Taken out of context.

But whatever, let's just agree that Skip is irrelevant and essentially an ESPN troll.

[skinsfan69]

W/out question there's some..and I repeat the word SOME... white fans that would like Cousins to play, and some black where they want RG3. So some of what Bayless said is true. I didn't have a problem with what he said. I think most if not all people on this board, and the majority of the fans want the guy who gives us the best chance to win. But I did have a problem with him saying that Redskin fans are mostly white. He made DC sound like Tuscaloosa. That was a terrible and uneducated comment.

[The Goat]

^^ Lol that's awesome...the open receiver is not the open receiver any more! It's a new day in football!

In all seriousness though if coaches are using Davis as a decoy on some pass plays and telling RGIII to not hit him even if open for the first down we're not going to see much progress in the offense this year. Davis is still the best downfield weapon on the roster.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

^^ Lol that's awesome...the open receiver is not the open receiver any more! It's a new day in football!

In all seriousness though if coaches are using Davis as a decoy on some pass plays and telling RGIII to not hit him even if open for the first down we're not going to see much progress in the offense this year. Davis is still the best downfield weapon on the roster.

The mere fact that you got THAT out of my post indicates you clearly are not the intended audience for the 'All-22' film. Do you not grasp route progressions and decoys in play design?

Also if you think that our TE is the best downfield weapon on the roster, I'm guessing you, Davis and Williams have a similar hobby.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

The mere fact that you got THAT out of my post indicates you clearly are not the intended audience for the 'All-22' film. Do you not grasp route progressions and decoys in play design?

Also if you think that our TE is the best downfield weapon on the roster, I'm guessing you, Davis and Williams have a similar hobby.

LOL no offense intended dude but I did get a laught out of it. Route progressions and decoys are no harder concept than getting the ball to the open receiver

Yes, Davis is without question the best downfield target on the roster, especially in redzone. Moss is our best receiver at finding open space but his size doesn't allow him to break tackles the way Davis can. But Moss should have the most yards among our WR corp this season if coaches/QB play to our strengths ala Brady to Welker in New England. Hankerson and Morgan are good help but neither can find the open space consistently. Garcon isn't going to beat many DBs or even safeties when it comes to straight line speed, nor is a big/strong enough to overpower most. From all the video I can find he often struggles in space, whether it's working underneath the linebackers or the secondary. On the flip side Garcon has good hands and doesn't mind crossing the middle. Indy set him up w/ lots of quick slants and YAC, with some deep routes mixed in though the DB typically had to get fooled for Garcon take those passes down.